"CATCH YOU FUCKERS AT A BAD TIME?"

Beetlejuice Beetlejuice

A sequel to BEETLEJUICE was first announced when part 1 was still in theaters. Director Tim Burton started developing it in earnest, went through a couple different ideas, it seemed like it was really gonna happen in the early ‘90s until he and Michael Keaton shifted their focus to BATMAN RETURNS. In my opinion that’s one of Burton’s best movies and one of the great sequels – it’s a continuation but reinvents so much of the first movie’s approach that it feels completely fresh and even more potent.

A bit of the song “Macarthur Park” echoes hauntingly over the production logos of the BEETLEJUICE sequel we finally got 36 (!) years later: “I don’t think that I can take it / ‘cause it took so long to bake it.” But after all that time in the oven, BEETLEJUICE BEETLEJUICE is no BATMAN RETURNS. It’s more of a getting-the-gang-back-together type of sequel, not as much of a shift as it probly would’ve been back then, or that it would need to be to be a new classic. To me it feels less aggressive about nostalgia than most of these types of things, but I gotta admit it’s built more on “remember this?” than “hey, check THIS out!” It returns to the afterlife but mostly just the same bureaucracy/waiting room stuff as the first movie. We get another sandworm, another non-consensual lip synch, another wedding. All fun stuff, but wouldn’t all-new stuff be better? I bet younger, hungrier Burton would’ve brought us somewhere totally different.

And yet I got a pretty big kick out of this. Burton hadn’t made a movie in five years, and it’s been longer than that since he made one that anyone loved. He does seem more engaged here than he’s been in quite some time, and as you may have heard he’s back in hands-on mode. I don’t mind that he uses so much computer animation these days (he’s an animator, after all), but it’s a total delight to see him ditching that in favor of the ol’ puppets, costumes and stop motion. That was a great choice, but almost more crucially he’s back to doing silly-ass comedy. This is a descendent not only of BEETLEJUICE, but of PEE-WEE’S BIG ADVENTURE, CABIN BOY and MARS ATTACKS!. No, it’s not as good as any of those, but how many movies are?

It would be kinda hilarious if it pulled a GHOSTBUSTERS: AFTERLIFE and pretended we all take the first film very seriously, but I think Burton would be too embarrassed for that. Instead it’s kind of a goof on legacy sequels and on his own career. Lydia Deetz (Winona Ryder, HOMEFRONT) has grown up to be a sellout and a parody of herself – wearing the same goth outfit, but now as the Vampira-like host of a reality ghost show on a set based on her childhood attic. Whether or not she still qualifies as “strange and unusual,” she sees ghosts everywhere, and she’s sick of it. Her producer/boyfriend Rory (Justin Theroux, BODY COUNT) is an exploitative, pony-tailed jackass who misappropriates therapy language to manipulate her. He’s kind of like the Otho character, but he’s also like Beetlejuice, trying to trick her into marrying him for his own advantage, publicly proposing at her dad’s funeral!

Yeah, we all figured they weren’t gonna bring back Jeffrey Jones (who was later arrested on child pornography charges) as Charles. Also they weren’t gonna bring back the main characters, the Maitlands, at the very least because they’re ghosts and Alec Baldwin and Geena Davis couldn’t look the same age as they did in 1988. In the case of the Maitlands the movie does what you expect – mentions once that they were able to leave because of a loophole and never mentions them again. (Lydia’s daughter saying “How convenient” to that explanation is a rare case of the “pointing it out makes it okay” type of meta joke working for me.) But the movie’s most outrageous running gag is that they do keep coming back to Charles and reminding you that the actor’s not in the movie. First there’s a whole stop motion sequence depicting his death by shark. Then he’s a character in the afterlife, but without a head, because it was eaten by the shark. The audacity of needlessly drawing attention to it never failed to crack me up.

The funeral brings Lydia together with her pretentious artist stepmother Delia (Catherina O’Hara, ROCK & RULE) and sullen boarding school daughter Astrid (Jenna Ortega, THE BABYSITTER: KILLER QUEEN), who resents Lydia for breaking up with her father (Santiago Cabrera, TRANSFORMERS: THE LAST KNIGHT), now deceased. Especially after playing Wednesday Addams (in a show partly directed by Burton) they could hardly have Ortega be another goth, so she rebels partly by believing in science, not the supernatural. She’s sort of the co-protagonist, and there’s a point where I felt like it was getting surprisingly serious about teen romance material, but it has plenty of tricks up its sleeve.

Meanwhile, in the afterlife, everybody is pathetically preoccupied with the past. Beetlejuice (Keaton, THE PROTEGE) has a photo of teenage Lydia on his desk at work and still schemes to marry her. His ex-wife Delores (Monica Bellucci, SHOOT ‘EM UP) – who poisoned him to become immortal so he chopped her up with an ax – reconstitutes after centuries of being stored in boxes, and sets her eyes on revenge (plus sucking the souls out of various ghosts and leaving them deflated like balloons). Wolf Jackson (Willem Dafoe, THE LIGHTHOUSE) is a ghost detective trying to catch her, but as a b-movie star who died doing his own stunts he’s basically acting, reading speeches off of cue cards and throwing in gratuitous somersaults.

I’ve listened to several podcasts about this sequel and the various unmade ones. Most people seem to feel similar to me, that it’s a flawed movie they mostly enjoyed. But I think I differ in my interpretation of what BEETLEJUICE is and should be. I love and identify with Lydia as much as anybody but I feel like some people are too precious about what can be done with the character. Especially when they scoff at the various unused concepts (where Lydia falls in love with a surfer or works as a flight attendant or…) it seems like they want her to be an unchanging aspirational figure of unimpeachable judgment. But she’s always been a goof, that’s why we relate to her! A top five moment in the first film is when she crosses out “fallen” in her suicide note and changes it to “plummeted.” We’re laughing at her as well as with her; these are irreverent comedies, not wish fulfillment. So I really liked that in this one she’s a total mess. Good people can be total messes. You try losing your mother at a young age, then growing up around art scene hipsters in a haunted house where a demon tried to marry you. (By the way, I like that when Lydia reveals her past with a “trickster demon” to Rory it sounds exactly like how it would be said in a serious horror movie.)

One thing I wasn’t really expecting is how much they did with Delia. She seems to have become an even more successful artist, with a whole foundation in her name, currently collaborating with a French graffiti artist played by Sami Slimane, the main guy from ATHENA. Ever since EDWARD SCISSORHANDS I’ve thought of Burton’s movies as being about sensitive, misfit artists, but of course BEETLEJUICE made Delia’s “living and breathing art” one of its funniest satirical targets. Now, as Lydia struggles to connect with her own daughter she has reason to get along better with Delia, and the movie also seems more charmed by her antics than the first time around, because at least she’s true to herself, which Lydia hasn’t managed lately. And yet… (SPOILER)… the movie hasn’t gone soft on us. Making us like Delia more doesn’t mean she won’t bite it as a gag. It’s so refreshing these days to see a sequel that doesn’t seem to give a fuck about making another one.

(Although if they did, we all know what it would have to be called.)

(BEETLEJUICE BEETLEJUICE 2)

The main criticism I’ve seen is that it’s too convoluted and overstuffed. Pretty much every person I’ve talked to and every review I’ve heard specifically brings up Delores as an unnecessary character only there because Bellucci is Burton’s girlfriend. I’m not saying the story couldn’t be improved with some streamlining, but I object to the notion that everything here should have a strong narrative purpose. In fact, I think more movies should have unnecessary characters played by Tim Burton’s girlfriends.

Delores is no Martian Spy Girl, but I had fun watching her staple herself together and deflate a bunch of people in her, what, 5 or so minutes of screen time? And without her crimes we don’t need Dafoe playing a hard boiled detective with half his face looking like a science class anatomy dummy. To me these gratuitous new characters are of higher value than the admittedly fun repeats like the sandworm and the guys with the shrunken heads. I’ve seen those before.

Delores and Wolf may be somewhat extraneous to the main story of Astrid being trapped in the afterlife and Lydia needing the help of Beetlejuice to rescue her, but they’re in keeping with the PEE-WEE/CABIN BOY/MARS ATTACKS! attitude of fucking around and doing silly shit. To me most of the biggest joys in the movie are the things that don’t necessarily make sense, like Beetlejuice’s flashback being shot like a Mario Bava film and dubbed into Italian, or his eye circles dripping like mascara when he cries, or when he has healthier hair to woo Lydia with Richard Marx, or that the Baby Beetlejuice character looks more like a Spirit Halloween lawn decoration than a movie monster. (And is used for a TRAINSPOTTING reference?) One of my favorite jokes is that the emotional reunion between Astrid and her dead father is all played completely straight other than the silly animatronic piranhas attached to his flesh, wiggling and making little sucking noises the whole time.

Ortega is very strong in a part that’s too straightforward to be as memorable as Lydia or Wednesday. She gets to do a little bit of crazy dancing, like in maybe the best episode of Wednesday, but she’s mostly here to keep the story ever so slightly grounded. The main event, obviously, is seeing Keaton back in the moldy makeup, grunting and grimacing, morphing into different personas, making a Large Marge face. It’s such a weird, hard to explain character, only in the first movie for 17 minutes, not much more here, iconic but not yet worn out. To me it really did seem like a big deal when they summoned him. There’s still weight to it. And he’s still funny.

The script is credited to Wednesday creators (also writers of LETHAL WEAPON 4 and THE MUMMY: TOMB OF THE DRAGON EMPEROR) Alfred Gough & Miles Millar, story by those two and Seth Grahame-Smith (DARK SHADOWS, ABRAHAM LINCOLN: VAMPIRE HUNTER, PRIDE + PREJUDICE + ZOMBIES), because he wrote a version of it almost a decade ago. The one that was in development forever long after the other ones that were in development forever.

After that long history of almost-weres I can’t help but think about what might have been. Way back in the beginning Jonathan Gems (pre-MARS ATTACKS!) wrote the version they came very close to making called BEETLEJUICE GOES HAWAIIAN. He later told Fangoria, “Tim thought it would be funny to match the surfing backdrop of a beach movie with some sort of German Expressionism, because they’re totally wrong together.” The Deetzes would’ve moved to Hawaii to open a resort on an ancient burial ground, there would’ve been surfing contests, a volcano, Beetlejuice and Lydia mermaids, a gang of beatnik bullies, Frankie and Annette style musical numbers. It would’ve allowed Burton to go into a visual mode that was completely new instead of partly new and it just sounds hilarious. But he was feeling BATMAN RETURNS more, so it worked out. We can’t have everything.

I’m not ready to say that the old Tim Burton is back from the dead, or that a new one has risen. But his eyes have opened. I think I might see a few sparks coming from his neck bolts. I’ll stay tuned.

This entry was posted on Thursday, September 26th, 2024 at 10:09 am and is filed under Reviews, Comedy/Laffs, Horror. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

22 Responses to “Beetlejuice Beetlejuice”

  1. This might surprise some of you, because I rarely talk about it, but the first BEETLEJUICE was the most important movie of my childhood. I was obsessed with the cartoon and when I learned that there was a live action movie, I got my mother to buy the tape (on the cover they spelled Michael Keaton’s name “Keaten”, btw) and watched it so many times, I can still cite almost the whole movie in its German dub from memory. (I kinda broke my heart when I watched it for the first time in English and realized how badly dubbed it was and that my sister’s and mine favourite and most quoted line doesn’t actually exist!)

    So of course I lowered my expectations, especially after the ALIEN: ROM-EMBERTHAT debacle from a few weeks earlier.

    And I had a blast! I was not prepared for how wild the movie goes.

    My complaints are really minimal and most of them have to do with the ending, which both suffers from “Hey, remember the thing you liked in the last movie? Here it is again, but not as good” and “We have no idea how to wrap up the subplots, so let’s pick the most random way” syndromes. I’m willing to forgive the last one, because let’s be honest, part 1 wasn’t exactly BACK TO THE FUTURE when it comes to the script. It was full of holes and randomness and that’s why it worked. Of course one could say: “We shouldn’t check our brain at the door, they had a good opportunity to put more effort into the writing”, but honestly, for something like BEETLEJUICE it’s okay. (Although I wonder if it was necessary to kill Rory at the end. He was an annoying gold digger, but didn’t even try to kill Lydia. Even in a movie that portrays death as nothing to be afraid of, this seemed unnecessary harsh for someone who was just an asshole.)

    Of course the 2nd biggest complaint is that for a movie, that tries to have a certain actor NOT in it, you see his face pretty often. I mean, they give that guy a cool claymation goodbye, but explain the Maitlands’, who were the actual protagonists of part 1, away with one line of dialogue?

    One could also say that it doesn’t fully escape the unfortunate trends of giving our childhood heroes sad lifes, but Lydia doesn’t have it THAT bad. She has panic attacks and a douchy fiance, but is a celebrity and even if her daughter seems to hate her, as Delia points out, it’s more or less normal teenie behaviour.

    But all in all I was really on board with the whole thing. Even giving Beetlejuice a backstory worked, although it was completely unnecessary. He was one of those characters who didn’t need a backstory and we are safe to assume that the info he gave us were straight up lies. Still, both the story and they way it was told worked.

    BTW, was I the only one who expected a surprise villain reveal? The Deetzes were so surrounded by death, I fully expected the wedding to be interrupted by someone who revealed that he manipulated the plane, opened the manhole for the grafitti artist, send the wrong snakes, maybe even drove the car that caused Astrid to ride her bike into that one dude’s backyard.

    Random side note: My sister pointed out that the middle part, where Lydia seeks help from Beetlejuice and they go on a sidequest together, actually feels like the cartoon, where the two were best friends.

    I fully approve of BEETLE2CE. It’s incredible that in a time, where everything has to be safe and a franchise a big budget (IMO at times pretty PG-13 pushing) weirdo fantasy movie

  2. Gah, forgot to finish the last line:

    I fully approve of BEETLE2CE. It’s incredible that in a time, where everything has to be safe and a franchise, a big budget (IMO at times pretty PG-13 pushing) weirdo fantasy movie that this exists…because it’s a franchise and has a safe, built in audience.

  3. I do think the movie is overstuffed, but that’s only a problem because it prevents the film from developing a strong central story. It’s just a big pile of entertaining, imaginative stuff. Which is fine! I liked it! But the first film managed to have a big pile of entertaining, imaginative stuff AND a storyline that you could somewhat invest in. That’s just the way these modern franchise movies go, though. They start with a list of all the elements they want to cram in, then try to find a story that can link them, and when that fails they just braid together a bunch of loosely related subplots. They don’t start with a premise. The premise is “This is an existing brand.”

    But I liked it. It was goofy and I laughed. And I can’t believe I didn’t figure out the significance of the lyrics to “MacArthur Park” to the film’s development history. It all makes sense now.

    Speaking of delayed second installments in a beloved series, I have finally published another story! This one also coincidentally deals with a raven-haired teen girl with some dark interests, so this is the perfect review to link it to, in my opinion.

    I hope some of you feel like checking it out. If you do, and you feel like dropping a review, I would appreciate it.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DHR2SQR2?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_601X7X4YKZKYPF9N45DF_1&starsLeft=1&skipTwisterOG=1

  4. Great review, Vern. You point out all my criticisms in a much more loving way, and I admire the ability you have to celebrate the qualities rather than harp on the shortcomings, but validate both.

    When I first saw the promos for this, and Lydia looking basically the exact same as she did in the 80s, my initial reaction was “Who the hell would have the exact same stereotypical goth haircut almost 40 years later?” But then I remembered Robert Smith, and withdrew the complaint.

    I am just now remembering that there was an artist character working with Delia at the beginning. Not sure what the point of that character was.

    Is Burton really dating Monica Bellucci??? Holy shit that guy has very consistent tastes. Do you think Eva Green knows she’s next?

    The shark fin headstone for Charles made me laugh. The Bobs could have been funnier, I liked the expansion of Beetlejuice’s exterminator business into a bigger call center, though I feel like there was some kind of Glengarry Glen Ross type joke that could have been done there, but they didn’t really do anything with it.

    (SPOILERS)

    My problem with the movie was mostly just feeling like only Delia and Beetlejuice himself got anything interesting to do. Theroux was great but couldn’t do much with such a one dimensional character, it was like they just took Ian from High Fidelity and made him goth instead of granola. Beetlejuice’s backstory was underwhelming and didn’t do much for me- did he just watch a lot of TV in the 20th century to pick up all the showbiz persona? And I really was not a fan of the exact same sandworm resolution, as Bellucci’s character was just like a less compelling version of the Terminator who shows up at the end just to be immediately dispatched- it was like, oh ok guess that’s just how all these movies end, a lip sync, a wedding, and a totally expected sandworm. I did at least get a laugh out of the Dune sandworm reference of the vibrating sand.

    But what there was on the screen entertained me enough to call it a good time at the movies. It could have been much more inspired, but everyone gets old, not everyone stays hungry for excellence like Keaton seems to do but he was worth seeing in the role again. Catherine O’Hara never disappoints and was the highlight here for me. Willem Dafoe also improves any movie just by being in it and even feeling a bit extraneous like this role he still adds excellence by going all out.

    That fuckin baby creeped me out though. Need more weird tone shifts like that.

  5. I thought Baby Beetlejuice was a reference to Larry Cohen’s It’s Alive!, rather than to Trainspotting. IIRC it’s pretty much as replay of the entire opening scene.

  6. I agree with Vern. It was fun. I liked it. It could’ve been more. I don’t usually try to rewrite movies, but I couldn’t seem to help myself with this one. They could’ve found a way around the Maitlands by recasting them and then having some crazy explanation about why they don’t look the same. Or even more, make them have crazy, cartoon faces like when they were trying to scare everyone in the first one – “Yeah that happened a few years ago when we were all messing around and it stuck.” That would be a totally different movie. Just tweaking the one that exists – they should’ve lost the teen boy and made the fiance just a lying, manipulating producer. He could’ve been shooting down everything Lydia wanted to do with the show and making it more scary and sensational than she wanted. It should’ve focused on Lydia trying to repair her relationship with Astrid. It should’ve been her and Astrid who summoned Beetlejuice. It should’ve been Astrid summoning Beetlejuice again to ger her into the after life to find her father, or she finds a way to sneak in and Beetlejuice and Lydia go in to rescue her. It should’ve ended with a live taping of her show, not a wedding, and they unmask the producer as a dirtbag (which I agree with CJ that killing him seemed a bit much) and then at the very end it’s Lydia and Astrid doing her show the way she’s always wanted to. Just my thoughts, but I did enjoy it.

  7. I rewatched the OG BEETLEJUICE before seeing 2 BEETLE 2 JUICE, and as bonkers and macabre as the original is, it has an incredibly lean script. BEETLEJUICE TO THE SECOND POWER is much looser. I found this one to be more like GHOSTBUSTERS: FROZEN EMPIRE than GHOSTBUSTERS AFTERLIFE– in terms of having a lot of characters and meandering plot threads, akin to cramming an entire season of some Netflix series into a two hour feature. Like that movie, it’s trying to harness the nostalgia I have for the original while not matching its quality, but I still enjoy seeing my old friends again, and the actors all look like they’re having a blast. The weird diversions are probably my favorite parts– love that black and white Italian flashback and the extended musical lip-sync number (though overall there’s maybe two too many needle drops). I do find it weird they made sure not to cast Jeffrey Jones for obvious reasons, but still used his visage and character in the movie quite a bit.

    I did have a bleak thought: In the first movie, they reveal that suicides become civil servants in the afterlife. So does this mean Astrid’s dad killed himself?

    CJ: What’s your favorite line from the German dub?

  8. Ann – Good call on IT’S ALIVE. I just meant the little part at the end where he crawled on the ceiling.

  9. I liked it too. It’s a complete and utter mess as a story, and I can’t even excuse the script as a joke delivery mechanism (a la ZAZ movies) because it will often slow down for some groan-worthy ‘serious’ narrative ballast (mostly to do with Astrid*).

    But it’s just so joyful! Everyone seems to have had a blast making it, and I found that infectious as hell. Also, a lot of its jokes made me laugh and as Vern points out it’s full of fun little details and digressionsdddd. Burn Gorman’s priest had me in stitches every single time he opened his mouth. And yeah, it’s great to have Burton back and having fun after the last couple of decades.

    @Bill Reed – I had that same conversation about Astrid’s dad after watching the movie with a friend. I tried to argue that it’s a joke on how it’d be considered suicide to swim in the Amazon river, but given the script… well, I’ve probably given that half-assed response more thought than the scriptwriters did.

    *: Nothing against Jenna Elfman, who’s great here.
    **: The sequel would clearly need to be called Secret of the BeetlejOOZE

  10. Bill: The favourite, non-existent line happen when the Deetzes move in and one of the movers drops one of Delia’s sculptures on a table, which she angrily turns around, since he apparently put it upside down. In the original none of them says anything, but in the German dub she angrily says: “This is art, man!” to which he replies as he walks out: “I’m a philistine.” Admittedly it loses a bit in translation and writing. (“Das ist Kunst, Mensch!” “Ich bin ein Kunstbanause.”)

  11. DEFINITELY SPOILERS ALL OVER THE PLACE

    I was disappointed with this one. My Letterboxd assessment was “winsome, unfocused, overstuffed,” and that’s pretty much how I feel. There’s a lot of fun stuff, but it doesn’t really hold together. I can’t help but compare this to the O.G., given what a singular classic that one is, given it is the best Michael Keaton character or performance, and given the 35+ -year wait time. This film has some shoes to fill, is what I’m saying. Also, for my money, some other recent legacy sequels like TOP GUN: MAVERICK or TWISTERS have demonstrated that you can go home again and revisit a classic without embarrassing yourself — I think each of those films is probably better than its predecessor.

    So, we can do this people.

    Unlike Vern (I gather), I have trouble enjoying a film if its various elements and overall story don’t hold and flow together, even when it’s got a lot of individually good disparate elements. That is not a dig, I’m just acknowledging and owning that my experience is more holistic and precious and fragile or something — like a magic eye picture, I have to be able to really lock in and feel like it’s all flowing and working together and making sense. This one is more a cacopohony than a symphony.

    The first one was really lean and mean and knew what kind of a story it was telling and who its main characters were. Simple, streamlined, steady, and pretty elegant. This one feels more like an excuse to get the band together (minus Jeffrey Jones) and to toss in a bunch of newbies. I really liked Jenna Ortega’s sub-plot, and arguably that should’ve been the main focus of the story. I’m all for Justin Theroux (who kind of reminds me a little of Otho) and Dafoe, and Danny DeVito, and Monica Belluci, and Mel Gibson playing in this world, but it’s two or three too many extraneous or otherwise shaggy subplots. Better than fine to have these guys in the cast but find a more economical way to work them into a more focused plot. Meh.

    What did I like
    -Michael Keaton, who gets to do a lot of wacky stuff, including some new wacky stuff (I like the flashback to grave robbing times).
    -Monica Belluci and Willem Dafoe are delightful, even if extraneous. Dafoe for president/everything!!
    -Jenna Ortega. Deserves all the love she gets. She’s awesome and one of the best things about this. I like her subplot.
    -Catherine O’Hara. Always a pleasure, and I like how she’s mellowed and has a couple nice moments with Lydia.
    -Production values and general autumnal look of the Beetlejuice town / world is nice.
    -Jenna’s dad and that aspect. Was kind of sweet and different.
    -That Burton did not feel beholden to try to make this just like the original. He did his own thing. With one notable exception.
    -That one guy form DARK KNIGHT RISES and other stuff as priest. Good add!
    -Danny DeVito. He’s always welcome!
    -Beetlejuice helping them get the bad guy (even if he had his own Beetlejuice ulterior motives).
    -The bad kid’s dead parents and that whole supplot. Cool.
    -Beetlejuice speaking silly languages.
    -General Burtonian style, even though I thought this one was more Universal Horror Nights presents Beetlejuice than o.g., BEETLEJUICE (a lot of backlighting, and Beetlejuice was used and backlit in a way that reminded me a lot of Freddy in FREDDY VS JASON).

    What didn’t I like
    -Already mentioned the general shaggy, bloated, unfocusedness. It took 35 years to come up with this? This is what everyone finally came back for? Eh.
    -Claymation and headless Jeffrey Jones did not work for me at all. Also, what’s with the headstone with the picture of Jeffrey Jones? This film really didn’t know what to do with his character, and they handled it badly and excessively on multiple levels.*
    -Catherine O’Hara dying but not really. But maybe. I already forgot, but I think she came back, right?
    -Soul train sequence. I didn’t find this offensive, but more kind of cringe and overlong.
    -Banana song callback at the funeral. Dumb fan service.
    -Musical number in the church. Didn’t quite do it for me.
    -Tons of characters and little plot threads that go nowhere or get walked back or are disposed with abruptly and inadequately (Theroux, Belluci).
    -All the Bobs. A one-note fan service joke stretched too much.
    -This felt more like Winona Ryder as Winona Ryder than Winona Ryder as Lydia.
    -I felt like there wasn’t enough time at the Deets’s/Matilands’ house. That house was so central to the original, and I can see where that’s a bit of a constraint, but it felt a bit incidental here.

    What I was meh on
    -Justin Theroux. Eh. He’s okay.

    In the end, my expectations were through the roof, and this film did not meet them. But there is a lot of good stuff, and Keaton, Ortega, and Dafoe rock.

    Of course, Mel Gibson isn’t in this, I was testing you.

    I really liked ODDITY, for what it’s worth. I am capable of liking things.

  12. CJ-I second you on the cartoon. Beetlejuice is the first movie I remember renting and watching. Young enough that I did not understand why Otho and Delia weren’t terrified when they opened the closet and Barbara rips her fade off. And it’s one of my top 5 favorite movies. But I loved the cartoon just as much and it hit that weird late 80’s/early 90’s pattern of turning movies you would never expect into Saturday morning cartoons by tweaking character relationships, etc. Toxic Crusaders, Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, and Robocop come to mind. But making Beetlejuice and Lydia best friends and having adventures with all these netherworld characters was just a blast and kind of equaled the fun of the original movie in certain ways. And it’s a fun version/different take on Beetlejuice. That section of Beetlejuice Beetlejuice did have that feel to it for a minute even though he had ulterior motives.

  13. Skani-your description of Winona Ryder’s performance is spot on. It’s not a bad performance and I realize a character’s personality can change to certain degrees in 40 years but it did feel more Stranger Things Winona Ryder than Lydia.

  14. Okay, I wanted to get some of my thoughts out there before reading Vern’s review, but now that I did, I’m glad it wasn’t just me who thinks Theroux has a kind of Otho look about him. I thought that was cool. This character reminded me a lot of his MULHOLLAND DRIVE and INLAND EMPIRE characters, and I get that his whole schtick is the effete/metrosexual cad/bounder type dude, but it sort of distracted me this time, because it felt like kind of “Justin Theroux type beat” character. Honestly, I felt that way to some extent about O’Hara and Ryder, as well, like their characters seemed to blur with some of their other, more recent work — like this Delia was more like splitting the difference with part 1 Delia and Moira Rose (less mean than part 1, more flighty like Moira Rose), just like this Lydia was splitting the difference between part 1 Lydia and Joyce from STRANGER THINGS (less dour and self-serious than part 1, more angsty like Joyce). I think that is in keeping with the general take that this is more of a loose vibe / all-star cast game of grab-ass of a film. Not the worst thing in the world, but for a BEETLEJUICE sequel, I would have preferred a focused, involving, and satisfying plot where there is growth, and heart, and conflict and meaningful resolution that you care about.

  15. Like most of y’all out there, I’m in the “its goofy fun charm does the heavy lifting but it still works” camp.

    Realizing the crazed episodic structure and madcap frenzied last half hour is also what I love so much about Mars Attacks! (Any movie that ends with a hawk landing on Tom Jones’ arm as he busts into song cant be terrible)

    My kid LOVES the og one (she was Lydia for Halloween a few years ago) and had been counting the days until this came out. She also loved it and that joy spread to me. Now she wants to be Monica Bellucci this year!

    ALSO first IMAX flick for her and it blew her mind. And ear drums. But hearing that Elfman score blasting in there was pure bliss!

  16. Kyle, yes, exactly. Was thinking the same thing.

  17. CJ: “In the original none of them says anything, but in the German dub she angrily says: “This is art, man!” to which he replies as he walks out: “I’m a philistine.” Admittedly it loses a bit in translation and writing. (“Das ist Kunst, Mensch!” “Ich bin ein Kunstbanause.”)”

    Thank you for sharing this information! I will never not think of this the next time I watch the first movie. Also there’s a lot to unpack here as an American who doesn’t speak German.

    In American English, “mensch” is a term for a good, solid, decent, likable person (“he’s a real mensch”). Whereas saying “man” at the end of a sentence is 1) an old-fashioned expression of seriousness, like Dr. McCoy on Star Trek saying “Damn it, man!” or more commonly 2) something people do to sound casual or cool, a habit associated with beatniks and hippies which can sound humorously lowbrow and goofy when overused (Hudson in ALIENS, Cheech and Chong, etc).

    So in German I’m not sure if Delia is saying “mensch” to be sarcastic, or “man” to try to sound like a cool person, or “man” in the stern angry Dr. McCoy sense, but it’s funny each way.

    Also, in English we Americans know “Ich bin ein…” mainly from the famous John F. Kennedy quote “Ich bin ein Berliner”. And in English, we would use the contraction “I’m a…” to casually give information about oneself (“I’m a student”), whereas “I am a…” sounds more formal and sounds like the philistine is trying to make an important declaration about his identity.

    So it’s a good joke and they were right to add it, and actually it might gain something in translation!

    Vern: “The audacity of needlessly drawing attention to it never failed to crack me up” – This is a rare positive interpretation of an element in the movie that everyone else I’ve heard from seems to find uncomfortable and in poor taste. I’ll have to think about it this way the next time I watch this movie.

    Crudnasty: “Is Burton really dating Monica Bellucci??? Holy shit that guy has very consistent tastes. Do you think Eva Green knows she’s next?” We sure are lucky to have such good writers around here. That made me laugh.

  18. “Mensch” just means “human” in German. It can also be used in this language as an exclamation of frustration, like for example when you drop your slice of pizza, you can shout: “Ach, Mensch!” Some people also add a “kehr”, like “Mensch, kehr!” which I don’t know why and what the context is (“kehren” means “sweeping”, but zurückkehren means “returning”), although I can imagine it’s an old German dialect thing. The way Delia uses it in the German dub, is definitely meant to be condescending and angry in a Dr McCoy way, like a “What the fuck, man?”

  19. Oh yeah, we also say “Man!” to express frustration or disbelief. In English we would say “Aw, man!” when something bad or disappointing happens, so that is probably our equivalent of “Ach, Mensch!”

    If “kehr”/“kehren” means “sweeping” then I would guess it is being used for emphasis, similar to how in English we would say “What the absolute fuck!” or “This is total bullshit!”

  20. And it’s interesting how each of these meanings of “man!” are different, yet they are each meant to appeal to the shared humanity of the person you’re talking to. In the Dr McCoy way it’s to convey urgency (listen to me, damn it!), in the hippie / Cheech and Chong way it’s to imply brotherhood and perhaps-unearned familiarity, and in the I-dropped-my-pizza way it’s a plea for mercy.

    Meanwhile, I liked BEETLEJUICE BEETLEJUICE. I would have been a little happier if it was content to be a bizarre comedy like the original without trying to tug at the heartstrings through nostalgia, but I appreciate that it didn’t go as far in that direction as a lot of modern legacy sequels tend to do.

  21. I finally saw this one and wish I liked it more. It’s fine I guess and there are parts I liked but considering how much I adore the original this felt like a let down. What’s more frustrating is you can see the pieces of a better movie in BEETLEJUICE BEETLEJUICE it just never comes together. it feels like Characters and Ideas are introduced and never really utilized.

  22. Emphatically agree, Charles. There’s a lot of promising ideas in here in search of a focal narrative and some editorial discipline.

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