"CATCH YOU FUCKERS AT A BAD TIME?"

In a Violent Nature

IN A VIOLENT NATURE was one of this year’s most hyped and intriguing indie horror movies. It’s a slasher hailing from the land of Canada (see also: BLACK CHRISTMAS, PROM NIGHT, MY BLOODY VALENTINE), but it it takes an unusual approach that made some describe it as an “ambient slasher” or “slow cinema” after its midnight Sundance premiere. Writer/director Chris Nash cited Gus Van Sant’s camera-following-people-walking-around trilogy and Terrence Malick as inspirations, while many reviews compare the style to the Dardenne Brothers and Bela Tarr. So when I finally saw it on Shudder I was surprised that it’s much closer to a normal slasher movie than the arty deconstruction or reinvention I’d pictured from all that.

Yes, the approach is inspired by the above-named filmmakers, but this is not some self-serious, nihilistic chiller. It winkingly repurposes arthouse techniques for pulpy purposes. Alex Nino Gheciu of the Globe and Mail wrote that the film “has no protagonists. Everything is shown from [the killer’s] perspective,” which puts in mind the opening of THE TOOLBOX MURDERS, but it’s not that either. You have your usual characters, they’re just not at center frame the whole time.

Pretty much all the traditional elements of a FRIDAY THE13TH wannabe are here. We have a group of college kids visiting some woods in Ontario, some know the local legend of Johnny (Ry Barrett, BEYOND THE CHAMBER OF TERROR), a developmentally disabled kid who was killed in a cruel prank gone wrong. There was a coverup, a revenge, a curse. He has a meaningful object given to him by his mother and a trademark mask. There’s a character named Kris (Andrea Pavlovic, WELL SUITED FOR CHRISTMAS, DESIGNING CHRISTMAS) who ends up being the final girl and uses what she learns about him to try to escape. It’s a normal (if somewhat simplistic) slasher movie story, it’s just that much of the expository or plot-advancing dialogue is heard from out of frame or from a distance.

To be fair there are also plenty of scenes where we spend time with Johnny before and after what would traditionally be seen in a slasher movie, and that’s part of what makes it feel fresh. But mainly it’s a movie that reverses the traditional horror movie perspective. Instead of following the victims and then sometimes switching to the killer in the bushes looking in the window, it’s the other way around. I don’t think it’s radical, it’s just a good gimmick, a novelty that makes this a memorable take on the subgenre. Which I’m all for.

In the opening scene our off-camera main characters find a locket hanging in the woods, and Troy (Liam Leone, one episode of Eli Roth Presents: A Ghost Ruined My Life) takes it. They of course have no idea that the necklace being placed at Johnny’s death site is what keeps his soul at rest; immediately after they leave his resurrected corpse crawls out of the ground and starts stumbling through the woods looking for it. He never talks, and we mostly see him from the back, so it’s easy to forget he’s not Jason.

The most striking choice is that there’s no musical score. The movie’s most repeated image is Johnny’s back as he walks through the woods, like we’re playing him in a video game, and when there’s not a scene with other characters going on nearby we hear the birds and crickets and other nature sounds all around him, it’s very immersive. He’s gotta be the cinematic slasher whose footsteps we hear the most. It’s kind of nice that it’s a horror movie but also a peaceful nature walk. Two birds with one stone.

One thing that’s always funny in the movie, but pretty believable, is how often we see him approaching people and they’re just not looking in his direction and don’t notice him at all. He comes upon a dispute between a park ranger (Reece Presley, CHRISTMAS IN ANGEL FALLS, SANTA’S CASTLE) and a local named Chuck (Timothy Paul McCarthy, ABCs OF DEATH 2), and neither of them see him at first. The same thing happens later with two of our youths. Too involved in their macho bullshit to see Death coming for them. The part where Johnny follows Chuck (until he ironically steps in one of his illegal traps the ranger was warning him about) is really exciting as a slasher fan because we’ve seen this exact scene 1.2 million times but it’s always the camera on Chuck as he huffs and cries and falls, sensing that Johnny is behind him and catching up. Here we stay on slow walking Johnny and hear Chuck’s voice getting quieter as he runs off camera.

I think this is clearly a funny movie, but sometimes people argue with me on that stuff, so I will point them to the part where he mistakes Chuck’s necklace for the one he’s looking for but it turns out Chuck’s is engraved “#1 MOTHER FUCKER.” Nevertheless (or therefore?) it gives Johnny a warm memory of his mother.

Ehren (Sam Roulston) knows the story of Johnny and “the White Pines Slaughter” that happened here 70 years ago, so 15 minutes in we actually get a normal perspective with the camera rotating around them as they discuss it at the campfire, FRIDAY THE 13TH PART 2 style. In the next scene it goes back to Johnny watching them in the cabin as they argue, take off their clothes, go out on the porch to smoke, etc., but that’s a familiar horror movie point of view. Where it does stray from standard procedure is after the first really spectacular kill we get an unusual amount of screen time dedicated to Johnny dragging the body away and leaving the head somewhere. Later there’s a scene where he slowly pulls a corpse by chain into a shed with a noisy log-splitter running. He first tests the machine on a log, then uses it to cut off a hand, then the poor guy wakes up and starts blinking as the thing slowly chops off his head (seamlessly done in one shot).

That whole sequence takes almost 7 minutes. It has an obvious climax where they could cut away on a high, but instead they leave it running as Johnny stands awkwardly over the body for a bit. I think it’s an intentional provocation, and a funny one. We know from the obvious indisputable highlight of the movie, a cartoonishly over-the-top kill you’ll have to see for yourself, that Nash has a strong grasp of tension and release, setup and punchline, but also likes to linger in the discomfort, like a Norm MacDonald joke. I’m positive that many audiences hooted and cheered at the preposterous way he kills that poor lady, but I wonder if they continued to titter through the subsequent 35 seconds of quiet as he looks at the body, picks up the hooks and chain that he did the damage with, holds them for a bit?

Despite these strategic stretches of performative tedium, I don’t think Nash wants to punish his audience. Even the walking sequences get a sense of momentum from their many jump cuts, and the movie’s only 93 minutes including credits. Whatever pretentiousness may be implied by the influences being name dropped, this is clearly the work of Fangoria kids bringing back that Tom Savini era spirit of trying to top what’s been done before. It’s a pretty low body count, but each kill is designed to reward your patience, and there’s some really great dark humor with Johnny going so overboard he gets back onto the boat and then goes overboard again.

There’s one really funny observation I heard about the movie that I almost wish I could forget, but I’m gonna share it with you anyway. Somebody said that the antique firefighter mask he wears makes him look like a Minion. It’s hard to unsee. But I’m not sure how scary he’s really supposed to be anyway. Sometimes the cutaways to the mask imply a comical reaction. It gives him a little bit of personality to distinguish him from his genre forefathers.

We do see his face, and I think it adds some weight to him, even though he spends the scene sitting on the ground playing with a Hot Wheels keychain he found while his future victims are arguing nearby.

It’s a good looking movie, and well made. Some of the ADR acting can be slightly awkward, but it’s a good cast of unknowns, with Pavlovic in particular having the strong screen presence you need for lightly sketched characters like this to work. It’s not a period piece (a character mentions cancel culture) but the faces would work for one.

The more I write about IN A VIOLENT NATURE the more I appreciate it, but I admit there’s something that keeps me stuck at just liking it as opposed to really liking it: I just don’t get the ending. (ENDING SPOILERS THIS PARAGRAPH.) I appreciate the extended look at the “picked up by a good samaritan” trope, with Lauren-Marie Taylor (from both FRIDAY THE 13TH PART 2 and GIRLS NITE OUT!) giving Kris a ride to the hospital and a long story about her brother getting mauled by a bear. But even after rewatching it the defiantly uneventful conclusion feels like a betrayal of the rest of the movie’s “we’re gonna take our sweet time, but we’re gonna get somewhere” ethic. It cuts to the credits on a shot that feels like an “Oh shit!” but for me was a “Hm.” On further analysis I understand that she left Johnny’s locket on the gas canister and now it’s gone. I think the idea is that he took it and left, so it’s a good thing she ran instead of staying to fight. But I guess I’m a dummy who wants to end a movie like this pumping my fist instead of scratching my head.

Still, I recommend IN A VIOLENT NATURE to all interested parties. And by the way, writer/director Nash was the creature effects supervisor for PSYCHO GOREMAN (which is a hell of a credit), while PSYCHO GOREMAN director Steven Kostanski was the prosthetic makeup effects lead on this. So those Canadian makeup FX guys are up to some stuff up there. I hope they keep the ball rolling.

This entry was posted on Wednesday, October 9th, 2024 at 4:28 pm and is filed under Reviews, Horror. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

46 Responses to “In a Violent Nature”

  1. SPOILERS, I’M SURE

    Win or lose, I’m glad you watched and reviewed this one, but I’m extra-glad you liked it, and under not loving it. From the reading around I did, the ending good samaritan, seems to have elicited a reaction somewhere in the “divisive” to “infuriating and dumb as hell” range of the continuum. I actually liked it, but what do I know. I really liked the TCM vibes of the run through the woods at the end, and I really dug the amount of personality and ranges of mood they gave Johnny. Like the stuff with the hot wheels, or when he rousts the one kid out of his house, or the way he goes revenge HAM with the log splitter, or how he just goes into this cathartic rage kill for his last kill. There’s a good range of weird Johnny emotionality / psychology being explored there, and I really enjoyed watching Johnny do his thing, watching characters react to him.

    For me, the very end seemed like a pretty clear homage to HALLOWEEN 1, where you’re sort of just panning over his dominion, knowing he’s out there somewhere.

    Personal highlights of this review are you analogizing the film to a Norm joke and the phrase “strategic stretches of performative tedium.” Great stuff.

  2. Oops, meant to say “understand you not loving it” and “ending with the good samaritan.”

  3. I saw this in theaters and had the biggest grin on my face the entire time. I kinda love the anti-joke of the ending, and I appreciated it for what it did with the concept of the final girl. It’s the kind of thing you usually get in a sequel instead of at the end of a movie. Weirdly, we ended up seeing it with a woman who had never seen a slasher before and I figured people who didn’t know the genre wouldn’t get much out of it but I guess she dug it a lot? Maybe there’s enough ambient slasher knowledge you can kind of absorb through cultural osmoses idk

  4. Really, really wanted to love this but I kinda checked out half-way through. Lots of neat stuff contending with performances and, frankly, kills that feel like they are AI generated.

  5. Wasn’t sure how to feel about it. Obviously, it’s a smaller movie and you have to kind of accept what you get. I mean, in slashers, you love a high body count, but in this movie, he kills and handful of people, and it’s satisfying because he takes his time, and they’re pretty good kills (I mean, the yoga kill? Holy shit). It’s not a big deal that there’s no stack of bodies or anything.

    But I also found myself wondering, is that enough? I didn’t want to be influenced by the pre-film buzz saying this was a game-changer or something. But is it a slasher from a new perspective, or just a new camera angle? I kinda wanted to think, in between kills, he was really active. But no, the movie argues, he’s just getting his steps in. It doesn’t really add to my enjoyment or awareness of movie slashers. And that goes for the cryptic, muted ending. You could have disposed of it and wrapped this up at a tidy 70 minutes. Or maybe had a score-less, music-less finale where you see him, from afar, stumble onto a yacht headed for Manhattan.

    Cool that Kostanski was involved. Anyone see his new one FRANKIE FREAKO? It’s in theaters now!

  6. @Glaive, yeah, I felt that too. It felt a little too much like a thesis on slashers rather than being true to it. It’s Man Bites Dog meets Hatchet but mute. Except when (I can’t emphasize this enough, at least the version I watched) the slasher algorithm ad-libbed all the dialogue using the most monotone delivery outside Siri just giving me a play-by-play of who/what/why.

    Again, I really wanted to love this one but it doesn’t stand on two legs, it’s leaning against the wall outside of your film studies class murmuring about deconstruction and this brilliant premise it has and why entertainment is pablum. You know that movie. We all know that movie. I’ve seen the future of horror. This ain’t that. I’d love to have a pan-and-scanned VHS though, just for the wilds.

  7. I’m going to leave my typo unexplained. It’s fitting for this whole *waves hands above head* narrative.

  8. And, man, as someone who thinks Mallick’s Trees of That Life is quite literally cinematic torture of an inhuman degree, his slasher flick has got to have more going on than this does. It’s so…inert, and if that’s the intent, bravo, deed done. I guess you win.

  9. Basically, what I’m saying, if this were an episode of Tales From the Crypt it would be an all-timer. But it’s not and it isn’t. It’s an experiment at its length and we’re the Guinea’s. I appreciate it for swinging for the corn fields but that’s about all it’s got in the tank. After all these years of horror consumption, one admittedly committed to the bit kill scene just isn’t enough to get me racing. It felt like more of a tacit compromise/agreement between fans and the filmmakers.
    We will market it as the next step in horror; okay, we’re used to high-concepts that don’t actually deliver; uh…so the bag headed killer uses a hook to do something like in a F13 sequel, uh…I mean it’s cool but makes absolutely no sense unless the victims feet are, like, concreted to the ground but we’ll throw that in there to fit in and…wait, I can do that to someone with a dull hook and their feet never leave the ground? I mean, where is my Horror Comprehension Rating? This is Ratner Red Dragon on a completely different bar.

  10. It’s like they wanted that kill to have the same impact as Riki Takeuchi pulling his heart out to make a dragon ball that destroys Earth when it hits a bazooka missile. This is not deconstruction of “tropes”, that was.

  11. And if this IS a *slasher* I think we could all say, on that merit, it’s a boring *slasher* outside of the meta elements so I think it’s fair to slag it a little. It’s too empty and (pun) distanced to be a proper slasher and too predicated on the subject to be really outre. It falls in between the cot cushions.

  12. What’s this about AI-generated kills? Have we moved past worrying about cgi gore? Clearly I’ve been away too long.

    Also, I need to check this one out. In the pre pandemic days I’d started writing a STRANGERS sequel on the premise that if the series had already run out of ideas by the second one, it was time for a radical redirection, hence what I entitled THE STRANGERS: THE OTHER HALF LIVES (in the spirit of the second one’s familiar-but-nonsensical title). It was a home invasion movie from the pov of the home invaders that repurposed the residents into the generators of the scares, etc. Coulda been cool imo.

  13. This can be categorized as elevated horror but unlike many films of that ilk, I don’t feel a sense of snobbery where you get the impression the director wants to improve (or elevate?) this schlock that’s beneath them. And I say this of many of such films that can great.

    Here I think the director is a fan or fond of F13 but figured (1) I won’t get to make a F13 film anytime soon because of the lawsuits and (2) fuck it, let me try this different take on a familiar formula.

    I love how its own mythology makes this story feel like a part 3 or 4 of a non-existing franchise. Really enjoyed this, but the ending does feel like Nash wanted to wrap this fucker up with a thoughtful bow, say something and…which is what, that Johnny isn’t human anymore but an animal operating as an animal with echoes of long dead humanity? Didn’t exactly illuminate much.

    But I quite enjoyed this one. And they’re making a sequel, with horror fans online already joking “now with even more walking!”

  14. I saw this right after I watched I Saw the TV Glow and was tempted to pitch my television out of a window. I thought we were past the whole “vibes=horror” thing, but I guess not? Some cool effects but that was about it.

  15. Yeah, I totally understand not liking this — the buddy who watched it with me did not like it, and a lot of fans seem frustrated with it for a handful of undeniable and well-documented reasons, viz., pacing, lack of score, lots of walking. But I don’t really get the “AI kills” diss either, beyond the idea that it’s fashionable to invoke or shit on “AI” as a general signal of derision. I think most of the kills here are novel and creative and upsetting, so, is an “AI Kill” a “kill more novel and harrowing than what a human could come up with?” That doesn’t seem right. I would think an “AI kill” would be derivative and uninspired. But whatever the case, if “AI Kills” = “new kills that are different from what I have seen before,” then I guess sign me up for more AI Kills.

  16. I was dreading this one. I assumed I’d hate it but nonetheless its premise dictated that I had to see it. It’s a premise that I’d have been champing at the bit to see at any point over the past 40 years, but the universe hates me so it was made now, in the all-vibes era. But it kinda won me over. Its worst moments perfectly fit the pre-snark I’d written in my head before hitting play (“like watching someone play an open world video game who hasn’t figured out which button makes you run”) but I could never completely hate a movie that has THAT kill, and somewhere around the hour mark I realized that it’s kind of fun to imagine which stock slasher movie scenes were happening just out of frame at any given moment. Eventually, I settled into the flow and stopped fighting it so much. It ended up being mostly painless.

    I think for this premise to really sing, the slasher would have to have a lot more going on, but I suppose that would be a completely different movie. This slow cinema stuff is the whole point of the endeavor, but it’s never going to do much for me. If I get what a shot is doing, holding it for another 15 seconds isn’t going to make it do it more. There’s no reason it should take three minutes to walk into a building, steal some weapons, and walk back out again. It feels antagonistic in a way I find childish. But that’s the bit, I guess. I feel like there should be a way to keep the slow bits that work while putting a little more meat on its bones.

    I didn’t hate it. It didn’t make me angry. I may have even liked it a little. That may qualify as a Halloween miracle.

  17. When I wrote up my little letterboxd summary, I said that I think for part 2 they need to move out of this slow cinema space and either do some more conventional slasher stuff or just do some other weird but different stuff that they will have to figure out. I think this works once as a conceit/experiment/twist, but I don’t think you pull that off twice without losing my interest. It’s interesting when it’s novel, but it’s officially no longer novel. This was what the BLAIR WITCH people correctly identified when they went to do part 2, which didn’t work out so well in practice, but I think the underlying insight — “we can’t just do the same thing again” — is correct and holds here. So, more kills, less walking, and either more and different weird or more conventional (or a bit of both — leaner pacing, less lingering, but with some new weird things that are less about pacing and more just experimenting with visuals, viewpoint, perspective, time, lore, etc).

  18. Inspector Hammer Boudreaux

    October 10th, 2024 at 11:15 am

    An issue of nomenclature, or taxonomy:

    IMHO, a slasher movie is from the POV of the victims (mostly). A movie from the POV of the murderer is a serial killer movie. Let’s take two movies from 1980: MANIAC and FRIDAY THE 13TH. F13 is a slasher movie, MANIAC is not.

    Discuss. I will abide by the decision.

  19. This is interesting, but I’ve never really thought about it that way. I tend to view the slasher genre as a fuzzy set — not all slasher films have all the signature elements, and I’m sure you can find individual pairs of slasher films that share very few of the signature elements, but as long as it’s got at least of the few of the biggies, it counts. And it is fine if you want to additionally classify it as belonging to other genres. I think (1) there are at least three on-screen murders that do not involve firearms or the like, (2) a bulk of the runtime or plot action is be focused on the stalking and especially the murders themselves, (3) the murderer is motivated by a compulsion or propensity to kill for its own sake, (4) the murderer has some highly memorable behavioral, verbal, look, or backstory qualities (has a monster-y signature or otherwise memorable/shocking/bigger-than-life personality), (5) is or could be the primary returning character over a string of sequels. I think any film that meets at least the first four of these is quite likely a slasher (it could be other things, too), and any film that meets all of them is definitely a slasher.

  20. Slightly off-topic, but since you mention Béla Tarr, I’d be curious to read your take on his movies, Vern. The Turin Horse is a horror movie in my opinion, albeit a slow and existential one. And The Werckmeister Harmonies is simply one of my all-time favorites films.

  21. I haven’t seen any Tarr or Dardenne joints, and only one of the Van Sant trio (ELEPHANT). I got work to do.

  22. Watched it; really enjoyed it. I agree that the final act could have used more time in the oven, but the rest of the movie gave me enough to feel like I could fill in the blanks in a way that was satisfying.

    Besides the filmmakers Vern mentioned in the review, I feel like Tarkovsky and Herzog are also very present as influences. Except it’s also totally hilarious. Really, the thing it reminds me of the most is Worm On A Hook: deep familiarity with genre conventions, played both straight and otherwise + an original perspective = a great time, in either case.

    To keep the conversation on the review, though: as soon as the offscreen dialogue began, I knew I was going to enjoy it. Perfectly nailed the boilerplate genre screenplay blend of forced exposition, awkward gestures toward personality, and insipid cliches. I could visualize exactly what each of those scenes would look like in any other slasher movie.

    As far as Johnny goes, I can see the Minion comparison but I’m pretty sure the mask is supposed to look like a fly. There were buzzing flies all over the soundtrack when death and/or violence is onscreen; the closing credits song is about flies… I dare say the movie is playing around in a “humans are a part of nature/violence & death are natural/life is nature and nature is random” space, maybe with a light dusting of “incels are people too” if I’m really reaching here. I laughed aloud throughout the movie but I think it engaged with some more thoughtful stuff at times, mainly about what it’s like for an outsider to look in.

    On that note, what I got out of the end was that since the Final Girl barely survived a violent night in the woods, Johnny (and the film?) now deems her as someone who “gets it”– she is a kindred spirit in that she too has graduated into the class of people who are products of nature’s random cycles of violence. Through that lens, the bear monologue plays like a metaphor framing the idea that it’s part of human experience to participate in nature’s violence, usually without any choice in the matter.

  23. Yeah, I wasn’t really thinking through the AI comment guys, sorry. I didn’t mean literal AI but there’s something just…off to me on this one. And again, as awesome as *that* kill is, I’ve grown to be annoyed by the physics of some “awesome” kills. It’s like they’re just a rooted dummy standing there getting mauled and the sheer amount of force used in this one means knees buckling, limbs flailing like a doll and certainly, on the edge of a cliff, being picked up in the air and tossed about. I dunno; I guess the AI dig is because it seemed like a kill that got fed into a program to produce a “brand new kill” but has zero sense of gravity or physical weight. *shrug* There was just something about this one that didn’t work for me.

  24. Psychic_hits, that was an epic analysis. I’m with you on Herzog, and like you, I have assumed the movie and its title is basically looking at people as part of nature and Johnny as a kind apex predator in his jungle. We’re just watching him in his natural habitat, only without a British guy narrating. I will have to think about the part about the final girl earning her fighting nature stripes in Johnny’s eyes. Seems like a reach to me, but I still like it. I was seeing it more in Laurie Strode / Sally Hardesty trope kind of way — she will live to fight another day, but not because of any grand reason or to any significant effect. She’s like other final girls who fail to vanquish the killer but do manage to escape or fight to a (temporary) draw.

    Aktion, that makes sense. I couldn’t watch that kill in the theatre, I had to watch it again on streaming and work up to it. I did think the log-splitter kill was perfectly consistent with the laws of physics and also had a strong character/psychological motivation, though, again, it was more upsetting than fun for me. I thought that there was a good mix of kills though. The first one was deliberately goofy, the lake one was more implied and (literally) below the surface, the one you describe was the “holy shit!” showing-off-at-the-slam-dunk-contest kill, and then the log-splitter was the “torture porn” (pardon the expression in this dojo) kill. Oh, and I left out the one with the rock, that whole seen was pretty great and intense I thought.

    So, while I grant the point, I think it was a pretty well-rounded and inventive set of kills overall, only one of which was the completely-over-the-top-you-have-to-be-kidding-me, wink-wink-we’re-in-on-the-joke kill. No worries if you differ, this movie definitely isn’t for everybody or even for everybody who likes slasher-type movies.

  25. Thanks Skani. My take on this Final Girl is in keeping with my take on most Final Girls, in that I’d say a lot of them are framed as having ascended into a new plane of reality for having survived. But I like your interpretation that her survival is just more randomness— it makes the pov shot of her looking into the woods at the end cooler than I found it initially. I was looking for Johnny out there, but maybe she’s just looking at chaos.

    Aktion, I appreciate the explanation & I probably took your original comment more literally than I should have, my apologies. I had no issue with the kills, but to each their own. (The yoga one did take me out of things for a second, but only because I wondered how Johnny knew about yoga enough to make a violent mockery of it.) You actually got me wondering whether an AI *wrote* this thing during the leadup to the yoga scene— the dialogue between the girls on the dock is incredibly stupid, even for this movie. But then again, I find that whether it’s this movie or freaking Moby Dick, anything is gonna “seem like an AI wrote it” if I start thinking about it. My policy is, people have a long and proven track record of dreaming up nonsensical garbage, so unless I’m told outright that an AI made a thing, it was made by a person.

  26. 30+ year-old SPOILERS

    Oh, that’s interesting. I don’t really see the higher plane of reality part, since many slasher franchise final girls end up getting killed in a subsequent film appearance (often their very next appearance, if there is one — Nancy and Kristen in ANOES 3 and 4, Adrienne King in FRIDAY 2, Ellie in HALLOWEEN 5, Sally Hardesty in TCM 2022). Even exceptions like Laurie Strode sometimes bite the bullet, and that whole situation is muddled in general with her being Michael’s Sister (sometimes!). Alice from ANOES 4 and 5 is an obvious exception, and she’s a particular favorite final girl of mine, even though I don’t really revisit those ones anymore. In any event, my read of final girls is just that it’s a trope, and their specialness and our special bond with them is more utilitarian in service of the formula and giving us a likeable, harder-to-dehumanize / easier-to-like protagonist to root for in the particular film. Then, once that film is done and they’ve served that utilitarian purpose in that film, it’s not at all unusual to toss them overboard in favor of a novel and often younger final girl. I have never read that academic book about final girls, I am just going on my own analysis and experience of things. Anyway, I may be getting hung up on semantics and “what exactly is the meaning or metaphysics of ascending to a higher plane of reality?”

    I do agree that final girls are generally differentiated from more cannon fodder type characters by their ostensibly superior discernment, intelligence, resourcefulness, or non-vapidity, which makes them more likeable and root-for-able and seemingly more worthy (or simply better equipped and more capable) of slaying the beast. But I don’t really see that as graduating or ascending so much as escaping or living to fight another day through some combination of good luck, timing, and superior intelligence/awareness/problem-solving. Anyway, I will think about what you said.

    As for the scene panning over the woods. I like your reading about how it’s just more randomness, but that is not what I actually took from that scene. I saw that scene more as an homage to the last scene of HALLOWEEN 1

  27. …in both HALLOWEEEN 1 and a VIOLENT NATURE, I see those scenes as being more about conveying the following: This is the killer’s territory / domain. He could be anywhere in this radius, whether you see him or not. He’s in the shadows. Or maybe he isn’t. But he certainly might be. Look alive, you have survived for now, but this is his turf until his head on a pike says others.

    In the case of HALLOWEEN, I’m always fascinated slash annoyed at these mystical magical readings about Michael being the Shape and mystery and nature of the shape as cosmic eeeeevil embodied and blah blah blah. The films (especially Loomis) and their fans and analysts get a lot of mileage out of all of this pseudo-mythology, but all most of the films ultimately give us is that this guy is very, very hard to kill. The rest, it seems to me, is construction and projection of people like Loomis, Laurie, and the audience. Setting aside the Thorne cult stuff, which, whatever, I never really got into that.

  28. Right on, I haven’t read that Final Girls book either, but now I want to. Humorously, I think the semantics of which plane of reality we’re talking about is key to what I meant (maybe my fault for saying “ascended”)— I didn’t mean to imply final girls definitively become enlightened in the end, or gain something they benefit from. TCM is a great example: I’ve always thought Sally’s survival is in the physical sense alone, & that when she escapes in the truck she’s acting like a completely broken person. She’s on a different plane of reality than the one she began on, for sure, but higher… I wouldn’t go that far.

    I confess I’ve only seen the first HALLOWEEN, and it’s been a long while, but the same goes there too— nothing I can recall really suggests Laurie has a big transformation, but I still think it has the hallmarks of a coming-of-age story as well as being a slasher movie. Even if the wisdom gained is “the world contains things like this, and I know that now” that’s still a story worth telling a lot of the time, with or without knives. Many sequels complicate this idea, though, it’s true. I would guess that in those cases the thematic intent takes a backseat to just doing something unpredictable or extreme for the sake of not repeating what the series has done before.

  29. Well, I definitely agree that, at their best, these films aren’t just a good or harrowing time, but that they do say something about the end of innocence, the problem of evil (both philosophically and existentially), and the combination of good luck, wit, and character that it takes to survive in an unpredictable world where the more privileged among us exist on the knife edge between warm and safe “normal, everday life” vs. harsh and nightmare-ish invasion from malevolent and/or indifferent destruction. So, I think there’s a lot to mine there, for sure, about coming of age in general and especially among women. And not only is it a moving target, but just a variegated one where there are themes, not universals, and also plenty of exceptions. I don’t really love the SCREAM movies, but Sydney Prescott is a great example of refining the final girl concept and rejecting the idea that being “virginal” itself is a prerequisite. It’s more about being aware, discerning, and having self-respect vs. just being led around by baser instincts — at least when a psycho killer is in the house!

  30. And impressive film indeed.

    “Impressive” in that the golden decade of slashers, the 80s, brought top slashers, good slashers, average slashers, mediocre slashers, bad slashers, awful slashers, and hideously subhuman slashers… but it did not manage to bring something as imbecilic and inept as this “film”. “Don’t go in the woods” and Friday VII, VII, and even IX are better than this. Far, far better, actually.

    That, in a way, is impressive.

    If one goes several decades later, then maybe, MAYBE “Heavy Metal Massacre” and the remake of “Texas Chainsaw” are worse than this. Bay’s remakes are similar in their pretentiousness: they were the “future of horror” etc., this one’s director says similar phrases… but he beats Bay, too, because he keeps babbling how his lack of budget for even the simplest electronic score was actually “a deliberate choice” and is a “highly artistic decision” made for “the enhanced ambience”… and the sheep are buying it and swallowing his words as true.

    Of course, there are much worse pseudo-slashers in the nu-slasher wave of >2005, with the Ellie Rots, the Platinum Dunes, the Ajas and similar parasites – but that is obvious and expected… so congratulations on fitting in that “special crowd”.

    By the way, this is more of an amateurish and awful copy of the silly but fun “Madman” than “Fridays” (aside, perhaps, from Friday II).

  31. Oh, fuck off with that. I mean, I understand not liking a film, and I especially understand not liking a film that fails to deliver on its own intentions, but shitting on a film because it doesn’t share your intentions is just being a snob and yucking other people’s yum for sport. Like, the promotion and early buzz around this film made its distinctive conceits and quirks very clear, so, it’s like shitting on BLAIR WITCH for being found footage or shitting on JASON X or FREDDY V JASON for having Jason do or experience things that would never happen in a conventional Jason movie. Like, if you don’t want to watch a Jason in space movie or a running zombies movie or a slow-burn naturalistic slasher movie because you reject its whole premise, just don’t watch it. What exactly is imbecilic about this film other than that it does not suit your particular sensibilities or interests?

  32. Well…this is some discourse. I appreciate what both Skani and Psychic are saying so I just wanna throw out the example that I think meets all our criteria for a “true” final girl; Kirsty Cotton, especially if you roll her sequel into one narrative. She emerges from the ruins a very, very different person. One irrevocably damaged, we assume, but on the same token more capable of dealing with “the shit” than anyone else.

    Just while musing on it, does the Final Girl have to be excused from any misdeeds to qualify? Like, if she played a part in the prank that led to creating a murderous psycho-monster do you still get to be the affirmation of willpower character? Valentine, a hand-wave of a slasher actually gets up close to that point since basically all the girls were or had been kind of awful. I’m not comfortable with the incel connotations there but I also think, all the questionable reasons we’ve had for wronged people becoming superhumanly prepared walking death-traps kinda still checks out. Of course an incel would will themselves back to life to continue their horror. Prison, Shocker, Horror Show…basically anything you’d cast Brion James in.

    I mean, does Jason’s revenant even KNOW why he wants to kill people on the lake? As an adult I wonder all the time about this. How does this actually work or does it really not and we need to take as the conceit it is? I’m just musing now but the thing I think we often take for granted are the WHY? of it all, so I give this credit for giving me more of that but it feels so slip-shod.

    I appreciate this as an experiment of genre head-knocks, but it rubbed me wrong. But I know a few of us will get into arguments about Wolf of Snow Hollow so I regretfully admit I’m no taste-maker. Just calling the ball as it falls for me.

  33. Seriously, Wolf of Snow Hollow, Vern.
    It actually does technically fit slasher search and seems precisely the “personal but pulpy” form of horror you appreciate. I know Maj didn’t like it, and I can admit if you aren’t on the wavelength there and then, it’s abrasive. I’d say the same of Parker as a protagonist.
    It’s also filled with great performances and Rob Forrester’s last and most affecting performance. THIS is where his Jackie character ended up for me, moved to a small Colorado town, taken up sheriff because of course, and now he’s at deaths door, a son, and the wolf.
    The film stands on itself but if you have a handful under your belt it keeps expanding.
    Fistful of Dollars, the werewolf film.

  34. Also as someone who battles the dragon daily the AA moments and especially the falling in the kitchen scene are too real. Verisimilitude is different for different strokes.

  35. SNOW HOLLOW has a lot going for it, but I found Cummings’ performance in the lead so obnoxious that it sunk the whole movie.

    To paraphrase Ned Flanders: “I like his movies except for that douchey fella who’s always in ‘em.”

  36. Aktion, too many intriguing threads in your earlier post for me to follow more than one, but I do think if you look at Nancy Thompson or Laurie Strode, I don’t see any misdeeds on their part, but you tell me if you see any (Nancy is, of course, punished for the sins of her parents, so maybe that counts, but Laurie still seems pretty much lily white across the board afaict).

    And, as I hope is clear, I think it’s totally legit if this one rubbed you the wrong way, as long as the implication is not that anyone who felt otherwise is a lesser class of human (which, you acquitted yourself just fine on that score, so all good, I appreciate the give and take!).

  37. @Maj, fair. However, one man’s douche may be another’s “shit, am I THAT douche?” His performance struck me so close to home that it got me where I didn’t expect it to.
    And c’mon, that Orion logo? Dude read the room.

    @Skani, I don’t quite buy this myself but Nancy did play a part in lying to all the parents about their sleepover when her best friend got ripper murdered, so perhaps *guilt* is also a factor in the final girl build?

  38. @Maj, I certainly don’t know you or want to paint you up but Cummings performance is exactly the way that MANY of us here would react. Complete and utter exasperation at the absurdity of a situation we have no real way of wrapping our own heads around and feeling completely untethered from the populous and their assumptions of duty, greed or benefit.
    Wolf of Snow Hollow isn’t perfect but it kinda is FOR me.

  39. @Maj, I certainly don’t know you or want to paint you up but Cummings performance is exactly the way that MANY of us here would react. Complete and utter exasperation at the absurdity of a situation we have no real way of wrapping our own heads around and feeling completely untethered from the populous and their assumptions of duty, greed or benefit.
    Wolf of Snow Hollow isn’t perfect but it kinda is FOR me. So I guess I’m apologetic about it. Sue me.

  40. Stay strong, Aktion. I love the Kristy Cotton query. If she’s alive at the end of the movie, she’s a Final Girl, in my opinion, but it’s cool to consider the moral part of the equation. I didn’t mean the incel thing as a dig at all– I think it’s an area ripe for exploration in any pop cultural medium. I’m not saying that’s the intent of these filmmakers, but it did cross my mind while I was watching this movie.

    Kajagoogoo: in my experience, this is a community that doesn’t worry much about whether things are “pretentious” or not, but I’m hardly the setter of standards in that department. I guess you didn’t like this movie, though, and I personally am OK with that.

  41. Since we’re on it, I gotta point out a difference that has more and more meaning to me, as a piece of art. WoSH knows where it’s going and builds a narrative around that. IaVN is a concept in search of a narrative payoff. I know there’s weight to be had for both approaches but this distaff between these two “concept” flicks illustrates why sometimes you need to actually “plot” a story rather than accept your audience to be enamored with your conceit. *shrug* I dunno, I’m going to go watch Quaid D.O.A. on VHS so don’t judge my views too harshly.

  42. And yes, I do love all the Panos Cosmatos joints. I have depths, guys.

  43. @psychic, “Kirsty”. I know it’s not you, I gotta mentally correct it every time.

    Whether or not it was ever on anybody’s mind but Kirsty getting it over on her evil step-mother is kind of next level “final girl”. By the end of Hellbound she’s actually avenged everyone, saved the child and literally shed the evil skin she could’ve become. At least until that sequel, Hellrush, Hellheels, something with “Hell” that kinda fucked up this reading.

  44. @Kajagoogoo, for what it’s worth calling “Ajas” “parasites” just ain’t a look I’d wanna wear. Also, just, what?

  45. The Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead of slasher movies.

    And it was a blessing that this movie had, as Sal of Sal’s Pizzeria said, “No music, no rap, no music, no music”. Better no music than to destroy the mesmerising atmosphere with the aural sludge/wall of noise that smothers too many films nowadays.

  46. Hey, I saw this one not that long ago. I agree that it’s slow cinema. I was nodding off on parts of it, which is my personal barometer for detecting slow cinema. But I liked it overall.

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