"CATCH YOU FUCKERS AT A BAD TIME?"

Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes

I am a human, but I love those apes and that planet they got. I really have enjoyed the entire PLANET OF THE APES series except for the Tim Burton one. Even that has amazing Rick Baker makeup and a beautifully goofy ending (that everyone else hates). But the original and all its ‘70s sequels are fun in different ways, RISE OF THE PLANET OF THE APES reinvented it surprisingly well, then DAWN OF THE PLANET OF THE APES and WAR FOR THE PLANET OF THE APES pushed this incarnation into full on greatness.

This new one KINGDOM OF THE PLANET OF THE APES builds off of the previous trilogy, but somebody could start here if they wanted to. I was surprised by the prologue, showing the funeral for central character Caesar (with a cameo by Maurice!). But it tells you all you need to know: that a virus made apes smarter, killed most of the humans, and Caesar was the first leader of the apes, but now he’s dead. This story takes place “many generations later,” when apes have established different settlements with their own cultures and Caesar is revered as “the first elder.”

The brilliant director of the last two installments, Matt Reeves, up and moved to Gotham City, so this one comes from a new team, other than producers Rick Jaffa and Amanda Silver, who wrote RISE. This time the director is Wes Ball, who did the MAZE RUNNER trilogy (which it turns out I need to see) and the writer is Josh Friedman (WAR OF THE WORLDS, THE BLACK DAHLIA, Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, TERMINATOR: DARK FATE). Friedman worked on the AVATAR sequels, and this seems like a movie that might not exist without them – a shamelessly sincere fantasy adventure that’s mostly performance capture/animation but feels like live action and involves a conflict between nature and technology.

Like the Na’vi, the apes have different tribes. Here we meet a trio of young chimpanzee friends, Noa (Owen Teague, IT, THE EMPTY MAN), Soona (Lydia Peckham, Cowboy Bebop) and Anaya (Travis Jeffery, UNBROKEN), of the Eagle Clan. They’re climbing high trees and cliffs that it took me a bit to realize were buildings grown over with plants, searching for eagle’s nests. As an important rite of passage they each must bring home an egg for tomorrow’s bonding ceremony, because their people are falconers, they train birds to, among other things, bring them fish.

When the kids return to their horses (man, it’s still cool to see apes ride horses) they find that one of their blankets has been stolen by an unseen creature that they nervously chase after. It drops the blanket while escaping into a tunnel that they’re forbidden to enter, but leaves the blanket behind, and they can tell by its putrid smell that it was an “echo” – their name for humans, which most of these apes tell legends about, but don’t seem to have ever seen before.

Their clan values good climbers, and Noa is a particularly good one, but he still thinks he disappoints his father Koro (Neil Sandilands, “Harbour pilot [uncredited],” BLACKHAT), who he will some day replace as “Master of Birds.” One little moment I love is when Noa nervously goes up to his father’s bird tower to tell him he got an egg from the “top nest” and there’s a guy there that seems like security or something. His name is Oda, he wears blue face paint, he looks intimidating. After Koro has left Oda asks Noa, “You climbed top nest?,” surprised. When Noa nods, Oda says, “Hard climb” and gives him a fist bump. You just get the sense that that means everything to Noa, for a tough guy like that to offer him respect.

Then everything goes to shit. First, Noa discovers that the echo followed him home to steal more stuff. Then he breaks his egg in a scuffle. Then, while out at night looking for another egg, he sees Oda get killed by an army of vicious, scary-masked raiders armed with cattle prods and commanded by a gorilla named Sylva (Eka Darville, Power Rangers RPM). And worst of all Noa’s horse gets spooked and runs, the invaders follow him to the village, burn it down, start taking apes prisoner.

One thing I really appreciate is that when Noa climbs up to his father and tries to tell him it’s his fault, Koro immediately shuts that shit down, treats him as a peer, they free the birds and try to fight off Sylva together, but fail. The next morning Noa climbs out from the wreckage, the only one left except for the birds. And he sets out to go through that forbidden tunnel, find where these apes came from and rescue his friends and his his mother Dar (Sara Wiseman) from enslavement.

So you see, this really is a straight up fantasy movie. A young man from a peaceful village is preparing to enter adulthood, the expectations of living up to his important father weigh heavy on him, then barbarians tear through, burn down the village, kill his father and kidnap his loved ones. So he goes on a daring journey where he meets new allies, has his eyes opened about the larger world, and proves to himself and his people that he’s worth of the mantle of Master of Birds. And by the way, it must be noted that the whole idea of a movie about apes training birds is impossibly fucking cool.

The first and most influential new friend Noa makes is the orangutan Raka (Peter Macon, TUROK: SON OF STONE), who at first takes him for one of the barbarians and taunts him for looking young and not scary without his mask. Raka is unlike anyone Noa has ever met. He wears a medallion of Caesar’s symbol (based on the window in James Franco’s attic) and says he’s the last of the Order of Caesar. He can’t read, but he collects books to continue “the work” of Caesar’s teachings and search for knowledge. Most unusually for his time, he believes that humans and apes can co-exist peacefully. So when the echo (Freya Allen, GUNPOWDER MILKSHAKE, BAGHEAD) shows up and tries to steal food from their camp he shocks Noa by giving it to her and trying to talk to her. He also names her “Nova” and says that’s what they name all humans. (A reference to WAR’s reference to the first film.)

They travel together, find a herd of zebras, then a herd of humans, and they try to leave her with them. Run along, little human. Be free. But then those fucking raiders show up and they recognize Nova as a human they’re specifically looking for. And they would’ve gotten her if she hadn’t (middle spoiler) yelled out Noa’s name. So he rescues her.

Yes, although most of this era’s humans are mute (and unintelligent?) there are still colonies hidden away that descended from those who were immune to the virus. They can speak, but know better than to do it around apes, who will see them as a threat. Her name is actually Mae, and she can lead them to where Noa’s friends were taken, a settlement on the coast led by a mad king bonobo who calls himself Proximus Caesar (Kevin Durand, K-9: P.I., 3:10 TO YUMA, ABIGAIL).

Here’s one of the those interesting ideas the PLANET OF THE APES series always tries to mix in. Caesar is this influential historical figure now, but everyone interprets him differently, there’s some misinformation and co-option going on. To the Eagle Clan I think he’s kinda like Ben Franklin or someone like that. They know the basic legend of him but don’t think too deeply about it. To Raka he’s more of a religious leader or philosopher. Raka has a pretty accurate (but a little idealized) concept of what Caesar’s ideas were, and really believes in them (although even he says “Caesar will forgive you” pretty casually when they violate the “ape shall never kill ape” law for self defense).

Meanwhile there is this coastal clan that also uses Caesar’s symbol, they yell “FOR CAESAR!” as a war cry while committing atrocities, their leader names himself after him, maybe considers himself a reincarnation? Proximus actually has a human toadie played by a famous actor I didn’t know was gonna be in it and part of his job is to read Proximus books about Roman history. He’s really into that shit. One of those guys.

Look at this prick.

I knew Kevin Durand was voicing/mo-capping one of these characters, I assumed it was the gorilla, had no idea he was Proximus. But this is one of the great performances in this technology. He’s scary and weird, he stands up on a stage and makes these authoritarian type speeches, but when he invites Noa into his quarters to try to recruit him you see a disarming side to his charisma. His goal is to open a gigantic vault left behind by humans – I believe the slaves are being forced to dig it out? – and to me he seems sincere in his belief that the technology inside can be used for the betterment of apekind. I mean he’s obviously doing it immorally, and for the sake of his own power, but there are persuasive parts of his argument, and that makes him more interesting.

Of course, Mae has been up to something this whole time. She knows how to get into the vault, wants to get at something that’s inside, and also convinces Noa that they have to destroy it so Proximus can’t have it. Kind of cold, if you think about it, that the only way to protect the future is to destroy everything humanity felt was important to save. But when they go in there we don’t see the Mona Lisa or Songs in the Key of Life. It’s not the library of Alexandria, from what we see. It’s mostly tanks and guns.

There’s a great moment when our heroes are confronted by Proximus and his thugs on the way out, Noa’s mom held hostage at knife-point, and Mae turns the tables by shooting one of them. The apes are awed – they had tanks and machine guns in WAR FOR THE PLANET OF THE APES, but that was like 300 years ago, these guys have never seen such a thing. The trouble is, Proximus seems more excited than scared. He tells Mae she’s free to go if she tells him where to get more of those things, and then you see her realizing her mistake. By resorting to using one gun one time in front of them she might’ve sparked a whole future of bloodshed.

Mae is mysterious because she’s torn between two worlds, but how much does she really know of either? She gets angry about how the things in the vault belong to humans not apes, and seems desperate to rebuild the world as it was, but she never lived in a world like that, she never knew anyone who lived in a world like that, or whose great great grandparents lived in a world like that. To be fair (SPOILER) we learn that she either comes from or is in contact with a subterranean military base, where they seem to have fully maintained uniforms and equipment and everything – we don’t really know what goes on down there, how much civilization they’ve re-created, or how thoroughly they’ve indoctrinated her. And there’s a part where, from what I can tell, she disobeys one of their orders. So I hope future installments have her growing and learning. We gotta have at least one human we can be proud of.

On a more superficial note I’m fascinated by Mae’s clothes. She’s kinda got rags like the feral humans, except hers are shaped like a tank top. Feral Sarah Connor. And her pants are stitched together with patches and everything but they’re perfectly form fitting. She looks good in those rags. I’m not complaining, I like it. I always notice this on The Walking Dead, too – they always manage to scavenge clothes that seem tailored to them. An important post-apocalyptic skill.

One of the few complaints I have about this whole modern APES series is that they barely bother with the female ape characters. Caesar had a wife who didn’t get to do much, and Soona is kind of in that tradition. Also it’s weird that they make the fur on the top of her head resemble a human hairstyle so that we know she’s a lady. Anyway, I hope they find more for her to do in the next one. We need a new Zira.

The best thing about KINGDOM OF THE PLANET OF THE APES is that it’s much more about the apes than the humans. So my one misgiving is that as it brings humanity back into the picture it becomes a little less exciting. I had no problem accepting the ape world as it unfolded but now I’m suddenly questioning everything. I buy that these apes are 300 years later in the timeline, but these humans act like they’re the survivors of the original pandemic. Maybe it’ll click when they explain it more in a sequel, but for now it doesn’t seem to make much sense.

There’s some ambiguity at the end that we’re left to ponder and decode, and it kinda seems like it’s pointing toward a crazy direction. On the other hand, the reveal of more humans with more military equipment feels like it’s meant to tease the conflict in the next one, but it just seems like the same conflict from the previous two movies, that we were happy to have moved on from. So that feels a little limp. But I do trust them to do something interesting with it. They certainly earned that trust here.

One thing I love about these modern APES movies is that the lines are a little blurry. There are some very bad bad guys, but Caesar was a complicated leader, more enlightened than his enemies but still a pretty scary guy from a human perspective. (Justifiably so. He had plenty of reasons to hate humans.) That tradition continues here, as we seem to be getting the story of Noa and Mae learning from each other, but in the end it’s a shaky truce at best. They don’t trust each other and don’t pretend to. There was a part I loved in a trailer where Noa said, with Mae on his back, “together strong,” seemingly adjusting Caesar’s “apes together strong” slogan to mean apes and humans. But that’s not in the movie and it’s not a lesson he learns this time around. Next time, baby.

KINGDOM OF THE PLANET OF THE APES is a really good movie, a big summer blockbuster entertainment with a soul. I recommend seeing it this week and getting swept away by it before FURIOSA comes out and you only want to watch that for the rest of the summer.

 

 

This entry was posted on Friday, May 17th, 2024 at 1:00 pm and is filed under Reviews, Fantasy/Swords, Science Fiction and Space Shit. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

36 Responses to “Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes”

  1. KINGDOM is a good or even very good film, which is why I am irritated that I don’t like it as much as the films of the preceding trilogy. I like many things about KINGDOM (the story, the acting, the design, …) and it has a few moments that stand out positively. If I use the Howard Hawks metric that a good film should have a few good scenes and no bad ones, then I should like KINGDOM more than I do.

    Maybe it is the “human stuff” that limits my enjoyment of this ape film? But it is well done. Mae is an ambiguous character, who is not necessarily likeable but whose motivation is understandable. Nonetheless, at least to me and my world view, she comes off as a partial/potential extremist. (That one reverse shot during her last conversation with Noa!) The other human – I don’t know if that character is wasted because the movie doesn’t do much with him or if that is exactly the point about the calm, “it is what it is” life that he leads.

    So maybe my somehow muted reaction is simply about KINGDOM featuring a completely new set of characters? Maybe I’m just missing the familiarity with the old characters. And maybe if there are more films featuring Noa I’ll have a more emotional reaction when I watch KINGDOM again.

  2. Thought this a bit fell apart in the sequel bait ending, where the characters go from having their own perspectives to outlining the larger conflict the filmmakers are teasing. SPOILERS I thought everyone was in agreement that the bunker was full of weapons that they needed to deny to Proximus (and that it would probably be bad for ANYONE to have, in an Oppenheimer sense), but suddenly Noa AND Mae are going “I wanted the weapons!”/”Those weapons aren’t meant for apes!” Huh? And Noa’s suddenly worried about humanity outbreeding apes and overpopulating the planet, leaving no room for apes–it just seemed like stuff the characters (who previously seemed to have next to no knowledge of the pre-apocalypse Earth) would only talk about because they got a call from the screenwriter, or because they were going for a metaphor that only halfway tracked with the actual text. So is that much of a flaw, that the stuff that was supposed to make me jazzed for a sequel had me going “wait, that doesn’t make sense”?

    (I guess Dichen Lachmann and the others in the ending are the forerunners of the nuke-worshiping mutants in Beneath?)

  3. Peter Campbell

    May 19th, 2024 at 9:20 am

    I enjoyed this one without thinking it was great. It felt too long in a way that needed a final editing pass to give it more urgency and tightening throughout rather than losing anything specifically. It’s simply a case of the editing needing more variation of pace to give it an underlying sense of direction that can be felt rather than explained.

    I liked the first two-thirds rather than the final action section, which felt like an actual genre obligation rather than a dramatic gearing up to confrontation. Character work did happen but the character work and the get into the base sections felt like they were going back and forth rather than being a cohesive whole, with one area of story-telling informing the other. It felt clunky. Also, how could the apes, who could climb all over, not find that back entrance to the base and focus only on the front entrance? A basic search of the area would have found it.

    The apes were the fun characters, especially Durand’s Proximus (very John Huston voice and manner, which connects to battle…apes) and Noa, who had a nice arc.

    Basically an enjoyable film that could have been even better of the scripting and editing had a little more time.

  4. There will never be the one proper film adaptation: that of Boulle’s actual story of Ulysse Mérou.

    A scene from it that remained etched in my mind when I read it as a child was that of the giant ape stock exchange, with the ape “maclers” and “brokers” aggressively falling into a furious frenzy of buying and selling, just like those seen in US films on US stock exchanges – except that their screeching ape counterparts begin jumping on the walls, flying on hundreds of swing bars, etc.

    None of the films even pay any attention to Ulysse Mérou’s story, although I believe that one foreign comic book (possibly a US one, or English?) maintained its elements. And, of course, the famous Hungarian illustrated story followed it faithfully as an adaptation, and is still the only real complete adaptation of Boulle.

    Of known film adaptations, US writer Sam Hamm had written the closest one to Ulysse Mérou’s tale so far. It was a fun script, overall (aside from some horrible moments, such as the apes watching a television series named “The Simians”, about the titular family of yellow cartoon apes), but “closest” only meant “closer than the others”, i.e. with perhaps 15% preserved – and, of course, the script was rejected.

  5. I liked KINGDOM even if the human/ape warring stuff reminded me of when Disney bought Star Wars and what was their plan for big bad adversaries for the sequels trilogy? Why the Empire again. Also the ending is one of those things I go “really?’*

    Perhaps also tbh I find Noa kinda forgettable as a protagonist. He’s no Caesar and I have to be fair but he’s too Hero’s Journey archetype for my taste. Then again its unique for this franchise and monkey protagonists so maybe I’m being too picky. I just wonder if his character has been more interesting/stand-out, those complaints about the movie being too slow might’ve been mostly nipped. Just my pet theory.

    Regardless, good shit. I’m satisfied. I wonder how many more titles can be used for this series? ESCAPE FROM PLANET OF THE APES’ shooting title was “Secret of the Planet of the Apes.” You can still use that one.

    *=IIRC filmmakers said this took place 300 years after WAR, so SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER those bunker humans were able to quickly communicate with somebody across the globe who assumingly was also sitting on their centuries-old radios this whole time? Its not a deal breaker but its one of those things that added another question that perhaps the movie didn’t need to bring up at the end. Reminds me when Matt Reeves cut that destroyer’s appearance in DAWN’s ending more or less for that reason.

  6. Michael Glasgow

    June 10th, 2024 at 1:54 am

    If every other instalment of the planet of the apes franchise has had a social commentary since it’s inception in the 60s. I feel if we’re keeping with tradition this movie leaves me feeling as if it’s social and racial undertones are sad but very true in today’s climate in America. The premise seemed to be this planet or country belongs to us! The humans in the movie, but those who see themselves as “Real Americans” most of whom have been here far shorter than those they look down upon. Just because you seem to have become like us in everyway that counts, you are not our equals, and we’re willing to do whatever it takes to TAKE our planet/country back by any means necessary. I believe at the end when the human woman was asked by the ape that helped her, saved her, fed her, kept her warm, if she thought apes and humans could live together? She thought awhile then answered honestly by stating she didn’t know. All the while looking into the eyes of a friend she’d almost just killed along with his entire family and tribe because the thought of his kind having the technology and weaponry that she and her kind just was not an option in her mind. All the whole little does her ape friend realize she’s holding a 357 revolver behind her back just in case he don’t know “makes her feel threatened? Or like her life is in danger?” The same life he and his friend who gave his life to save a hundred times! Then in the end you find out this chick has had a stone cold agenda the entire time. If this is subliminal social commentary about 2024 America it doesn’t bode well for this country especially the APES! It’s almost telling them these people don’t want to see you as equals so do yourself a favor a separate from them ASAP. The disease/ life is doing the dirty work. Once an organisms death rate outnumbers it’s birthrate that’s called an extinction event. Ask scientist. This is why CERTAIN politicians of a certain ethnicity are so hell bent to ban abortion. Planned Parenthood was originally planned as a way to control the minority population of America particularly blacks. Unfortunately for the original planners it had the total opposite effect, and backfired big time. So due to demographics shifting and what they see as an alarming rate they’re only cause of action is to try to stop the bleeding or slow it down. Little too little, little too late. America’s majority will be it’s minority in the next 15 years. And this has the “HUMANS” scared to death. Now the average everyday All American citizen is out in the streets, gloves off, hoods off, showing and telling how they really feel and felt all these years. No more hiding behind liberal smiles. These are conservative scowls now. Ask yourself, if they are so conservative what are they trying to conserve? The answer is plain simple they’re privileged and power that they swear doesn’t exist! Great movie, just can’t sit through planet of the apes without seeing parallels that’s all.

  7. Hey, guys. In the mood to feel the full crushing weight of time come crashing down on you all at once like some kind of planet covered with furry primate hominids? Last night I was in the hospital visiting a friend, when I got into a conversation about movies with a nurse. He asked me if I’d seen the new Planet of the Apes. I said, no, I’m not really that big of a fan of the planet of the apes. He said he really liked it, and it made him go back and check out the originals. He was surprised to find that they really held up despite their advanced age and were curiously prescient about our modern times.

    Reader, he was talking about RISE OF THE PLANET OF THE APES. Which came out in 2011.

    This is a full-grown man with a wife and a career. He holds people’s lives in his hands.

    His favorite franchise is TRANSFORMERS. Because they came out when he was a small child.

    Stop the planet of the humans! I want to get off!

  8. Majestyk I recently had a conversation with a young coworker about the PLANET OF THE APES and I had to explain how the statue of liberty bit was a mind blower in its day because for the whole movie the protagonist and the audience think they’ve crashed onto a different planet. I felt one million years old.

  9. I try not to judge young people for having a different sense of time or for not knowing about old things, especially when there is more old stuff all the time.

    If we feel like we grew up with more knowledge of past culture, it’s only because a) there was less stuff in the cultural canon then, and b) reruns and limited options meant that we watched and listened to whatever, simply because that’s what came out of the box. Young people today have a zillion more options, and so some things are likely to slip through the cracks.

    If anything I’m more impressed when something old maintains its toehold in the culture. Younger adults are still listen to 80s music today. If you were a child of the 80s, how much 40s music were you listening to? Also Gene Wilder as Willy Wonka has proven incredibly enduring in meme form, even among folks whose parents would be too young to have seen that one in the theater when it came out.

  10. I’m not judging. I get it. Time flattens out as you age, and what once seemed like an ocean of time can suddenly seem like a puddle. I’m sure some older movie lovers would have felt the icy touch of the reaper on the backs of their necks when young me described DIE HARD and LETHAL WEAPON as “classics” in the late 90s. It’s just sobering to see it happening to me.

    I’m also forgiving of youthful ignorance. Older generations would have been appalled at my calling myself a film fan without any working knowledge of the decades of Golden Age Hollywood history that formed the basis for every then-modern movie I loved. I’m only catching up now. So it’s never too late. And the great thing is, if the youth ever do take an interest, all those movies are accessible.

    But there’s the thing: they gotta be curious. They’re not gonna pick it up through osmosis like we did. I wonder if the algorithm-fed bubble the viewing habits of the youth are trapped in precludes them from ever getting enough exposure to older movies for curiosity to develop.

    I can get not seeing the actual original PLANET OF THE APES. But not knowing it exists? That’s a systemic failure of modern film culture.

  11. I was jsut about to ask “But doesn’t he know the musical from THE SIMPSONS”, but then I realized that his generation doesn’t watch that show as religiously as we did and most likely doesn’t even care about the 15 seasons because of their age.

    That said: It reminded me of how I saw it for the first time in the early 90s on a Sunday afternoon. I was in 5th or 6th grade and the next day one of my fellow co-students randomly asked: “Did anybody watch PLANET OF THE APES yesterday?” and half of the class, including me, started to talk about how much the ending blew them away and how they didn’t see it coming.

  12. I’m actually shocked at how often I see younger people wearing t-shirts of bands that formed forty years ago or even longer. I guess there was the short-lived swing music revival of the 90s. But otherwise, I don’t think there’s quite an equivalent for Gen X of Millennials. I do think a lot of this has to do with music publishing companies strategically keeping bands relevant through things like merchandise, biopics, and sampling. Like, they will actually reach out to pop artists and see if they want to sample certain songs to see if they can get a hit and lead that audience back to the original artist while making money off that new song.

    It’s kind of crazy that sampling has gone from the work of guerilla artists to corporate strategy.

  13. I agree that music is different. I work at a college, and I have never seen a student wearing a shirt for a contemporary artist or band. I’ve seen plenty of Nirvanas. Some Sublimes. A Prince or two. A Metallica or Guns & Roses here and there. I think the most “current” I’ve seen was Five Finger Death Punch? Maybe Ghost. They’re only, what? 15 years old? That’s practically brand-new.

  14. This is totally “same as it ever was.” I remember being in college and taking classes on film. There were a few people interested in older stuff, but for the most part it’s more like this convo I had with this one guy…I was talking about film noir and specifically how cool Lady from Shanghai is, and then he was like “duuude but you know what as amazing was that scene in The Last Boy Scout when Bruce Willis was running in slo mo with two guns!”

  15. A good friend of mine is now in her early 30s and by her own admission “Ready to watch old movies”. Last week she watched the original ROAD HOUSE and TOTAL RECALL, which she both enjoyed a lot.

  16. Instead of feeling sad and old, the idea of ROAD HOUSE and TOTAL RECALL transitioning into “classics” makes me quite happy. Hell yeah they’re classics!

  17. Ah..it’s like this shit’s been going on forever.

    Glad CJ brought up that SIMPSONS episode. I was in University in Melbourne and used to go to a friend’s place where we’d catch every week’s episode of THE SIMPSONS religiously. I was an older student as I worked before deciding to continue my studies so had at least 5 years on my classmates. When the Dr Zaius musical number came on, I laughed my ass off, and my friend gives me this blank look, and I had to explain “Dude, it’s a parody of Rock Me Amadeus!” which still drew blank stares. That episode aired in 1996. Rock Me Amadeus released in 1985. 11 years between the 2, and Falco was already “some old hit from the 80s” for some.

  18. Also, it was last year or the year before, I forget and happened to mention to a few of my colleagues “Hey, did you know Harry Porter is doing a biopic on Weird Al Yankovic?” which elicited a collective “Who?”. There is a gap of at least 20 years between me and most of my colleagues and at that moment I honesty felt, fuck me, just wrap me in linen, toss me in a sarcophagus and ship me to the nearest museum.

  19. Same exact thing happened to me. I was working with a student and trying to explain the concept of parody. Naturally, I used Weird Al as an example. He had no idea who I was talking about. They sent me home in an urn.

  20. I don’t think these things you’re mentioning nescessarily have to do with age. To most people (and I’m using the term un-scientifically) music, TV and movies are just easy entertainment that comes and goes without making much of an impression. I have colleagues older than me who don’t know who Bart Simpson is. And then I have kids who know more about Weird Al than me. This obliviousness can in itself be quite enlightning for those of us who are really into these things. Last weekend my wife was at a work party, and usually she takes on the role of dj (or music dictator, as someone once said). But this time some of her younger colleagues took charge, and played a lot of music they loved. They never know any of the bands she plays, but they know that they hate them. Me and my wife are music junkies. And it’s mostly rock, punk, some heavy, blues, folkrock etc, etc. But she didn’t recognize any of the songs. So when she came home she said that we had to check out the charts once in a while, because we’ve fallen way behind. After i little bit of research it turned out the stuff they danced to were 10-15 years old, and that we had heard about most of the stuff that’s in the charts right now. So, in short, most people, all ages, are ignoramuses when it comes to culture. I blame sports! Guess we have to start wandering the earth and share our knowledge with the masses.

  21. That’s actually very heartening. It’s not that I’m old. Everybody else is just stupid. I can live with that.

  22. I definitely judge intelligence by people’s knowledge of Weird Al Yankovic. But I also judged the 80s kids if they did not know all about, and was a fan of, Tom Lehrer.

  23. When it comes to getting older (I’m in my early 50s now) – and movies/culture – one of the ways I find myself thinking is – I can remember the first time I saw THE SIMPSONS – on The Tracy Ullman show in 1987, or ALIENS in 1986 – 35 – 40 years ago now – 40 years earlier – in 1946 – movies like THE BIG SLEEP, GREAT EXPECTATIONS, IT’S A WONDERFUL LIFE, MY DARLING CLEMENTINE, NOTORIOUS, THE STRANGER we’re all released. In 1986 they seemed very old, from very long ago – they were still brilliant movies, but they seemed from a different time. What seems old to some, like me in the 1980s, was not so long ago for my parents.

    However, as I’ve aged, the ‘oldness’ of movies has become less noticeable – I’m not nearly as aware of the distance to the past. In the same way that 40 years before DIE HARD was THE BIG SLEEP, 40 years before FURY ROAD was MAD MAX.

    And to echo MaggieMayPie – DIE HARD and FURY ROAD are considered classics the equal of IT’S A WONDERFUL LIFE and MY DARLING CLEMENTINE. Awesome.

    Another thing that always struck me was talking with my grandmother – she came from a time when space travel was something only in the comicstrips in newspapers, I do wonder now if modern day generations lack that discontinuity – it seems like we are truly living in a future ‘sci-fi’ world. In fact, writer SF William Gibson features this idea as a major underpinning of his fiction now – that for modern people, it really is a ‘future’ world we live in, it’s just not evenly distributed – some people have access to more of the ‘future’ – technology, medicine, knowledge etc.

    It seems like in someways culture is collapsing into a oneness – or a singularity where everything exists/coexists side by side/together – not in a linear continuity.

    I often wonder what my grandmother (born 1903) would have made of the fact that it wasn’t the colonization of space that happened, but that it would become the ultimately joyless preserve of superrich industrialists.

  24. People often say “Oh no, this future is lame, where are the robots and the flying cars?”, but a few years ago I saw a huge flatscreen showing news bits and commercials in a subway station and realized “Hey, this is indeed pretty futuristic! Also smartphones.”

    If they would remake AUSTIN POWERS and keep the timeframe of 30 years since he was frozen, the joke would probably him going: “Oh, okay, a few things are different, but all in all I still fit in well.”

  25. It’s pretty interesting when you think about movies from the 40s vs the 80s…just how different they were. Black and white, the clothing, the weird outdated acting styles and Mid-Atlantic accents that no one really used in real life, the music, everything. Then compare, say, Back to the Future or Die Hard to today. There might be some extra dumb showoffy special effect on the roof in Die Hard or whatever, but essentially they might be the same movies. A great comparison is Scream, a 25 year old movie…then compare to Scream 7 and they don’t seem that different at all aside from the phones and a few things. The clothing and everything is about the same…where before you take 15 period of movie and compare to another they are like other worlds. A 150 movie to 1965? 1975 to 1990? HUGE difference.

    Then we hit the 90s and everything changed, and the creativity went from clothing and cars and all of that to technology.

  26. I have a pet theory (well, actually several, but the other ones don’t factor in this case): Every decade since they “invented” teenagers as we know them, back in the 50s, there has been a sort of cultural revolution. Rock’n roll in the 50s, the hippie movement in the 60s, punk in the 70s and grunge in the late 80s. Then, in the mid 90s it stopped. Music started seriously repeat and copy it’s past, and movies sort of halted or stopped. I know a lot of people think THE MATRIX is some kind of milestone, but it has nothing really that Cameron and Woo hadn’t already done. Movies peaked with TERMINATOR 2. I blame capitalism. The money men can’t have styles and trends changing without they being prepared. If they can have it their way we must all dress the same way, listen to the same music and watch the same movies. Preferably forever. Then there’s serious money to be made. And it’s working. If you take a look at people at a concert today, you can hardly tell by the way they dress what kind of musc style they’re listening to. 30-40 years ago every style had a matching “uniform”. And it’s pretty much the same with movies. There really hasn’t been any progress since the 90s. I know I’m probably saying the same thing as Alan, CJ and Muh, but…still, right?

  27. I don’t know; on the one hand I think it’s hard to argue movies have changed as much in the last 30 years as they did between 1964 and 1994, and I agree that culture seems to have slowed down significantly in that time. I watched ALTERED STATES the other day which was released at the end of 1980 and was a moderate hit, but it’s pretty much impossible to imagine that movie even being made by the start of 1985.

    On the other hand, I think movies have gradually changed a lot over the past 30 years, to the point where they are pretty different, in some ways completely. Cinematic Universes? Pretty much an entirely new thing. Movie series coming back after a decade+ break? Happened occasionally, but wasn’t standard yet (PSYCHO II was the biggest gap for a long time, I think that’s been beat many times over in the past 10-15 years). Prequels and spin-offs? Happened occasionally but not standard. A lot of this is a broadening (some would say lowering) of what is considered “important” or at least “legitimate”, ie the rise of geek/nerd culture and the pop culture nostalgia boom. On the flipside you’ve got, as we have been discussing in the RENAISSANCE MAN thread, the death of the programmer, or at least its migration to Prime and Netflix, which I think reflects a big change in the culture of moviegoing; I don’t think people just show up at the theatre every so often and decide what they want to watch anymore (by and large), I think they only go if they really want to go, which has had a knock on effect on the kind of films that get made. I think Streaming is going to ultimately have as big an effect on the filmgoing experience as television, perhaps bigger. And then there’s the whole film to digital thing.

    Imagine someone frozen in 1994 waking up in 2019 and walking into a screening of AVENGERS: ENDGAME. I think they would be pretty lost by what exactly they are watching. “Wait, this is a sequel to *21* previous movies? And this movie is going to have *TV Shows* that are sequels to it?”

    Also, pegsman frankly your view of cultural revolutions seems very orientated around what you personally like or think is important; I mean late 80s Grunge as the big cultural innovation over new wave or acid house or hip-hop or even metal? I know you don’t like dance music, and I full admit I’m one of this site’s biggest hip-hop philistines, but I think it’s fair to say both have seen some pretty major innovations in the past 30 years. Drum n’bass, jungle, garage, dubstep and trap just to name the most obvious things that come to mind. Not saying you have to like them, or even respect them, but some of us don’t think grunge was that hot either.

  28. I could of course have made my text thee-four times as long, but I don’t have the energy. Music is personal, so yes, opinions about it will be subjective. But the key word here was “revolution”. The few examples I mentioned all, in some way, changed the way pop/rock music were played. I’m no big fan of the bands that came out of the grunge movement either, but Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Soundgarden, to name but a few, had such an influence on how everything from Michael Jackson to Metallica wrote new songs that it’s hard not to see them as more revolutionary than, let’s say, Sleazy D.

  29. Pacman: But aren’t you just proving his point? There used to be multiple cultural revolutions going on in music in any given decade. You could take your pick. Now it feels like it’s been thirty years since we’ve had a real shake-up. No innovations are happening, just the same old genres devolving into mush.

  30. “But aren’t you just proving his point?”; I mean I don’t think so, but then I wouldn’t, would I?

  31. Pacman I get what you mean by Altered States being a weirdo movie that seems more of the 70s and who would fund something like that later…but then Dune got made, and Blue Velvet. And even today, someone gave a big budget to Beau is Afraid. Weird flicks got made, maybe a little more in the 70s but not always with the big fat budgets like Zardoz had.

    But some of the other ideas…like, Cinematic Universes. Yep, they are a thing now and were and I do mean WERE wildly popular but we’ll see how that continues because it looks like things are hitting a wall due to overstauration and every movie now seems like homework and studing up for the next one instead of a fun thrill of what was coming.

    BUT, the idea is not new. Charles Band was doing that shit for a LONG time, inspired by those very same comics. Dollman meet the Puppets or whatever crap. Before that, you had Godzilla…oh in THIS one he meets Mothra which already was in a movie…and three movies later they team up to fight Rodan or whatever. And the OG of the idea, Universal Monsters where Frankenstein meet the Wolf Man which was pretty crazy for the time…and then they just kept adding and adding.

    But the idea of the modern Cinematic Universes and just watching them is not so removed from watching, say, Independence Day. Quips, explosions, tons of effects and action? YEP. Or shit go back further to Flash Gordon. Obviously cheesier, less technically accomplished. But it’s not like going from Temple of Doom to Tarzan and His Mate. Aside from the tie-in aspect, as movies the Marvels aren’t adding to cinematic language all that much. And disregard Marvel, the average big action movie now has better fight choreography and sometimes better stories, but is there THAT much difference in techniques and style and overall filmmaking in The Grey Man vs Cliffhanger?

    I’m more talking about the movies in of themselves, not the experience of watching them or how they’re presented, etc. Which always changes, it did when tv came out and then streaming has changed everything. BUT, at the same time to me in a certain sense, a lot hasn’t changed at all. Most of my favorite films I have never seen on the big screen. Not Evil Dead 2, not any Mad Max until Fury Road, not an Indiana Jones until I was finally able to get there to see the shitty ones, not The Shining or, going older to a movie I mentioned before, Lady From Shanghai. Now they just go straight to tv but was Freelance much hurt by that?

  32. Oh! And totally forgot…while not used much cinematically, let’s not forget Stephen King’s Castle Rock Universe!

  33. I do think that culture has changed more slowly over the last twenty-five years. Even if you look at the beginning and the end of the 60s, it seems like dress, music, and film have undergone massive revolutions. Things have changed in the 21st century, but they’ve changed more slowly.

    But I also think it’s hard to make sweeping statements because we also don’t have the same monolithic culture we once did. It’s easy to see what a revolutionary force hip-hop was in the 90s. It transformed what popular music could be. But it’s probably harder to see something similar now because there’s some sub-genre out there that’s likely pushing music forward. We just don’t see it. Right now there’s a lot of post-punk bands in the U.K. that, while they may not be “revolutionary,” they do seem to have a shared aesthetic and are taking that genre into the future.

    And I actually think the last few years have been a good time for movies. It seems like there are more mid-level films that are good to great, and weirder films are getting more exposure. Who knows how long this will last, but I think we’ll see the post-COVID years as a period of really strong films.

    I also think one of the problems is that video games and social media is eating up so much youth culture. And, to me, that’s kind of a drag. The internet is a great place to share your love of niche interests. I only have a couple of people in my life who genuinely love movies the way that I do. So, Vern’s reviews and all of your comments are like a little oasis for me.

    But it pains me to think that social media is the main contribution to youth culture. The idea of kids sitting around talking about their favorite video game streamer is just so dorky. I know that’s judgmental, but the internet isn’t cool and it has never been cool. I sympathize a lot with the kids these days, but my most judgmental opinion is that Gen Z are the dorkiest generation.

  34. Regarding music, there have always been fringe aspects to popular things…like bebop pretty much exploded jazz, but in the 40s there were a wide variety of styles. But we’re talking movements. If anything, music seems almost more retro now. Was in a car with a 25 year old the other day and she was playing music, and I asked about it thinking it was something from the 80s but it was relatively new stuff.

    Video game streaming is definitely a brand new type of entertainment though. Like, these guys just sit in front of a camera for 10 hours and don’t even have anything to say half the time, just checking their email or whatever and people sit around watching it. Like, fuck dude.

  35. Muh- First of all, good post, second of all I wasn’t so much struck by ALTERED STATES’ weirdness as much as it’s casual, even laudatory attitude towards experimental drug use and the extremely blasé way it presents Hurt’s character having extramarital affairs, with one of his students no less (or are he and Blair Brown meant to be divorced at that point? It’s unclear) It all feels like a very 70s, post-Woodstock attitude that was gradually swept under the carpet over the course of the Reagan years. OK a few years later you do have THE BIG CHILL which has a very post-free-love pre-AIDS attitude to drugs, sex and procreation, and you’ve got casual soft drug use in teen films through to the mid-80s (REVENGE OF THE NERDS, BREAKFAST CLUB etc), and toward the end of the decade you’ve got a very different approach to infidelity with FATAL ATTRACTION, but the package as a whole just strikes me as something that couldn’t have come together much later (and that does include Ken Russell’s Russelisms, who by the end of the decade was about the least fashionable once venerated director in the world).

  36. Pacman that’s true…although I think it still could have gotten away with the content because Hurt was almost in the tradition of an obsessed mad scientist and he serves as kind of a warning to NOT GO TOO FAR, so he can get away with a lot!

Leave a Reply





XHTML: You can use: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>